about the breastfeeding cafe in Cheltenham?

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Sorry if someone has already done this but I haven't spotted it if so.

I live in Cheltenham and there is a café proudly displaying a sign saying:

"Breastfeeding mums. Pop in and have a free cup of tea if you need a pit stop. No need to eat, no need to ask - please relax "

I am very torn about this. On the one hand, it's great to be supportive of breastfeeding and we know it is illegal to discriminate against breastfeeding mums. But on the other, it's basically discriminating against mums who either can't breastfeed or choose not to. Somehow makes me feel that it's saying breastfeeding mothers are more important and deserving than other mothers.

Am I being unreasonable in being torn?

I think it's a great idea. Breast feeders are a lot more likely to be made feel uncomfortable and unwelcome feeding outside the home. Anything that supports them is a positive thing.

No they are not. Breast feeders do not have the monopoly on hardship.

Anyway, this has turned nasty now. I posted the link to that article to show that I have no interest in taking rights away from breastfeeders, I want there to be equality in the way anyone who treats their baby is fed and if I can sit in a cafe and feed my baby with ease, so should anyone else.

Clearly that's not good enough, and what I hoped was some kind of olive branch-style expalantion of my feelings has been used to make a joke at my expense. What were you saying about bullies again?

Enjoy your laughs, I'm off to feed my baby what's best for her :)

I've said it before (waaay up thread, bloody hell this is getting long!!) and I'll say it again.....

I think all the cafe was trying to say was that they are a place where BF mums will feel welcome and comfortable to BF. They are not saying that FF mums, OAPs, students, children, men or anyone else are not welcome and should fuck right off, and we judge you FF mums for yee be the devils spawn etc etc.

I guess a more 'diplomatic' wording would be "all welcome, please feel free to breast or bottle feed your little ones. Happy to assist how we can (warm up bottle, free tap water etc)" but I think to be honest this was all implied in the tone of the sign anyway, and the fact that it had a smiley face at the end (I've seen the actual sign on a different site).

That people object to the free cup of tea for BF'ers.....well I can see how those 'not eligible' might feel put out...but I genuinely don't think this was the intention, I think they were just trying to do something to support/promote BF....a health promotion initiative if you will!!

Would you feel discriminated against if you saw a cafe handing out free hats and tshirts to anyone they saw applying sun cream. As a non-sun cream wearer would you feel judged or discriminated against? Or would you just see it as a health promotion initiative to promote/encourage good sun-protection habits??

You can support/promote something (BF) without actively saying that doing the opposite (FF) is a terrible pile of shit.

I DO agree that that within mummy-circles there is a culture of some mums judging others for FF instead of BF....but I think this is the minority and that FF'ers often perceive judegment when there actually isn't any being passed and get on the defensive (maybe due to guilt??).

Lots of times when carryng out 6 week checks I would innocently enquire "and how is baby feeding?" To be met with a long drawn out explanation for why baby was being FF, that they had tried to BF but it hadn't worked for xyz. I always replied "I'm not judging, I'm just asking to see how youre managing and whether I can offer you any support". Mums were always expecting me to judge them, when that simply wasn't the case.

In the wider society (outside mum-circles) I think that in general there is more acceptance of FF as the norm (statistically speaking IT IS the norm...by quite some margin!...see UNICEF figures upthread) and BF do face more judgement/discrimination by the general public when feeding out and about.

As I said before, FF is a perfectly acceptable alternative. But you simply cannot dispute the scientific facts that BF is both better for mums and babies. With BF rates so spectacularly low in the uk I think any initiative that supports/promotes BF can't be a bad thing really.

One last post while I sort out the 'faff' of sterilising

If the bottle feeder is able to give the child a bottle in the pram, then of course the breastfeeder should have the seat! That's beyond the BF/FF debate it's just basic courtesy. Just like if someone is on crutches and comes in needing the seat, neither the breastfeeding mum nor the formula feeding mum should have it, because the person on crutches needs it more.

If the formula feeding mum can't feed the baby in the pram I may speak from bitter experience as the mum of a baby who will only eat if there's a sit-down cuddle involved and the breastfeeding mum hasn't mastered breastfeeding standing up, then it's a free-for-all, first come first served.

The cynic in me suggests this has less to do with supporting women and more to do with marketing and profit margins. Businesses cannot afford to be altruistic. They are profit driven.

An advert like that is great positive marketing, and it gets them talked about. I expect they would quite like to become a destination of choice for bf-ing mums. A free drink is worth it too them because most people when offered something free in a cafe will buy something else to go with it, a biscuit or piece of cake perhaps. Groups of mums meeting up may well all buy lunch, and that's a whole table of lunches they would not otherwise have sold. If I was running a cafe it is exactly the type of marketing I would use.

As for extending it to bottle feeding mothers, well I expect they are customers already. They are trying to lure new customers who might currently stay at home as they feel intimidated about Bf-ing in public. I was initially. That soon wore off, but the first time I felt very self conscious. It would be reassuring going out to a cafe where you knew you wouldn't be the only one.

No they are not. Breast feeders do not have the monopoly on hardship

So if breastfeeding is so easy then why isn't everyone doing it?

Because it's not always easy is it? It's harder. Therefore needs more support.

moomin I was not making a joke at your expense. I was agreeing with your post hence the nodding along. You are again finding insult where there was none. The written word doesn't always convey things as well as face to face.

Am
Probably still reeling from the world news today but bloody hell guys...it's just a little cafe in little town on a small
Island.

I think it is very petty to begrudge BF mothers a cup of tea, I have FF, tube fed and BF my children and BF is harder, requires more persistence, makes you more thirsty and hungry and self conscious when out in public. BF also saves the NHS money (more than the cost of a cup of tea) and BF rates are very poor in this country.

Anything that helps normalise BF is a good thing.

Breast milk is an excreted bodily fluid that needs replacing!
If FF was made up with an excreted bodily fluid the 2 actions would be directly comparable.

I'd have preferred a glass of water myself but each to their own.

Well, as a result of breastfeeding and MN'ing long ago, I chose not to go to mother-and-baby groups until my children were mostly on solids, and I knew I could avoid feeding at a mother-and-baby group. I chose that because mumsnet made it very clear to me that just getting on with my day in the presence of formula-feeding mothers ran the risk of making a mother feel deliberately snubbed and hurt.

This thread has confirmed to me that I made the right decision in avoiding groups. If I ever have more children, I will do the same. Having a baby and the associated sleep deprivation is hard enough without the extra hassle of making sure to be apologetic while latching on.

It's made in to The Independent today...

O

Apologies for the random 0

And, as I said

"Ms O’Connor said that the sign was not in fact just for breastfeeding mums but also bottle feeding mum and those who don’t even need to feed but just need a break."

And no, it isn't all about Raymond Blanc out to make a buck, his other restaurants don't off the free tea - yet!

This thread just somes society today up.

Person A does something nice for person B. person C, on seeing this, doesn't think 'oh, isn't that nice' and carry on about there business, person C instead becomes enraged at how unfair this is, 'how dare person A do something nice for person B, excluding all others? Why can't person A do something nice for person C. Person A isn't nice at all, person A is discriminating'

FGS. No wonder so few people do anything nice. They'd have to do it for everyone wouldn't they. I can't do the shopping for the elderly lady across the road without some people wondering why I don't also shop for the disabled person 2 doors down.

that would be SUMS

Why are some people making such a fuss about something that is, in the great scheme of things, totally irrelevant. Babies are fed the whole world over. It's not brain surgery and you don't need any special qualifications or experience to do it. Your babies won't care and will have no memory of it and in a few years time it won't matter

I agree, feeding a baby shouldn't have a such a big deal made about it. It's not as if it involves any skill. Animals have been doing it for centuries (and nobody had to show them how to do it either). Why do humans have to make such a fuss about everything.

As long as a baby is fed and is happy, then it doesn't matter which method is used.

I've never understood all this entitled look at clever old me attitude to BF. It's milk fgs.

(BF 3 and FF 1)

I agree porkpie I wonder if people would feel so incensed and discriminated against/judged in the following scenarios...

• free diabetic-friendly piece of cake (sugar-free, low fat etc) for type2 diabetics...or.....
• free water and fruit for toddlers under 3 (both offers to encourage healthy snaking choices)
• free air freshners for people who have given up smoking (to help rid their houses of cig smells)
• 20% off clothes vouchers in a clothes shop for people who have lost weight and dropped 2 or more dress sizes (perhaps only for purchases on clothes sizes 16+, to encourage healthy weight loss.....not people who were previously a size 6 to start with!!!)
• my previous example of free hats/tshirts for people seen applying sun cream Etc etc

These are all examples of positive-reinforcement health promotion strategies. I.e. You reward behaviour that you want to encourage.
If you were not someone who fell into any of the above categories would you feel offended that you were never going to be eligible?? I am not diabetic, but would not feel excluded (or discriminated against) from such an offer as I would just think it was a good idea to promote healthy food choices in people with type 2 diabetes. I think the same applies with offering a free cup of tea to a BF mum.....I don't think FF mums should feel that this discriminates against them, or judges them as inferior in any way. Just that is a way of supporting and promoting BF.

it can be hard to know where to go to feed for fear of ending up in the news because you got kicked out of somewhere. If you know for a fact a place welcomes breastfeeders, you will go there every time. Brilliant.

Bambam stop exaggerating. You know perfectly well that as long as premises don't have an age restriction which bans all children no feeding mother can be lawfully asked to leave in the UK.

You're trying to turn your self into a martyr.

Why shouldn't they?

Places offer pensioners discounts etc. I see no difference.

I have bf and ff, the latter via tubes and then later bottles. Indisputably, bf is harder and requires lots of support, ff doesn't. Bf is physically demanding, ff isn't. Ffers are a very large majority, bfers a small minority. These are facts.

Treating people equally doesn't mean treating them the same. It means providing for different needs, as many posters have explained. This is one small business doing something nice and trying to cater to different needs, almost certainly with a view to increasing their own business. It's not discriminatory. It's just a nice thing to do.

ff feeding mums don't get the same poor treatment or tuts and sighs, dirty looks that even the most discreet of bf mums can get, so to find somewhere that is openly welcoming of bf is fab.

I'm currently breastfeeding, and think this is a great idea because frankly I do find it uncomfortable to feed in public. It makes me nervous. But I've never had anyone give me any tuts, sighs or dirty looks while breastfeeding... and when I bottle fed my eldest, who had a chronic tongue-tie and was being fed my own expressed milk... I did get dirty looks and snide comments. The area I lived in at the time had very high rates of breastfeeding indeed and a lot of pressure to do so. So no, it isn't true that a ff mother is immune. If life has taught me anything, it's that a mother's place is in the wrong.

Also: Ms O’Connor said that the sign was not in fact just for breastfeeding mums but also bottlefeeding mums and those who don’t even need to feed, but just need a break.

So there you go. The manager says it's for any mother of a small baby who needs a break.