"We are waiting to see what we have before choosing the colour for the babies room"

[FlipFlippingFlippers]

This is not an anti pink thread but seriously?! For what its worth I am female and I like pink. And blue. And green. And yellow. You get the idea. It just bugs me that people give colours gender. I do have a pink hating, dinosaur loving dd so I might be a bit more sensitive to this.

I think in general bedding and decoration is getting better as long as you do 'to stick to traditional high street stores. I found some really nice bedding on Amazon in different colours and patterns that weren't traditional pink/blue or that sappy horrible yellow and green that floats around a bit still.
The shops will catch up I suppose at some point.

Its not the colour that is the problem. Its the feeling that you need to conform to certain standards within society. The fact that these standards exist at all is the real issue.

There are a limited number of places that don't have the pastel pink and blue aisles of doom. Its marketing. Brands have realised they can sell more by creating the blue for boys, pink for girls thing. People feel like they can not use the pink clothes they had for their daughter when they then have a son. Therefore they go out and buy more. There is less profit in selling bright colours not associated with a gender, because it is more likely to be reused by subsequent children.

This is a huge influence on people's decision making when it comes to how much they spend on a new baby. I know people who have bought new prams on the basis that the one they currently have is the wrong colour!

So I have a problem with the degree to which we are being manipulated for profit with this. I do think that a lot of people have to comply with these 'rules' due to peer pressure as much as their own preferences. Afterall everyone who makes the assumption of gender based on a child's clothes has bought into this.

Whilst its not unique to the UK, the UK is certainly worse than other European countries for this need to conform.

I think there are a lot of knock on effects further down the line. I don't just think its about gender stereotypes in careers and family roles. I also think its about the wider pressure to conform and fit in within society rather than encouraging individuals and innovation. Thats something that effects both genders and our long term future as a country which has succeeded because of centuries of this creative and free thinking attitude.

So in terms of parents who refuse to dress their daughter in pink, but allow her to grow it long, its not just about gender - its about rampant commercialism.

I have no idea why people feel like they have to find out the gender 'so they can prepare'. A baby does not need commercial products. They do not need a room of their own. I think it just shows up our values as a society obsessed with 'things'.

Its depressing.

I think these issues mainly exist on MN. I have never come across this in RL. Some girls are girly and love pink etc and some aren't, some boys are very boisterous and some aren't. I have never met a parent who has forced gender specific clothes or toys on their children.

I am quite girly and love pink but also do high impact sports where I get muddy and tackle 19 stone men. I work in a professional job where I am paid exactly the same as the men and I don't feel limited in any way.

I have 2 DSs, they are very different, both very much into sports but one is quite studious and the other very practical. DS1 loves mainly typical boyish things whereas DS2 likes to wear pink, is quite creative, loves cooking, cleaning and loom bands.

They have had 'girls' toys in the past, DS2 had my little ponys for his 4th birthday as that is what he liked.

I actually don't see the issue of buying things specifically for boys or girls, I don't believe it is fully nurture as children develop their own opinions and likes/dislikes early on, hopefully they are strong enough characters to stick to what they want and we as parents won't hinder them.

I think that steering them away from things seen as for girls and onto things seen as for boys is limiting them. what if they really liked the pink toys but can't have them as it doesn't match their parents beliefs. I don't see many parents buying Lego friends for boys insisting it's good for them to not only play with boyish Lego. to be fair most Lego is really boyish not the colours but the themes. my dd loves building things with Lego but before Lego friends came out I was running out of things to get her. surely the skill of building anything with those teeny tiny pieces should be more important than what colour they are?

I also don't get why it's something to be proud of that a child who is a girl is mistaken for a boy half the time. it's like a weird form of gender denial or gender hate or something.

Of course babies need rooms of their own, mine had more stuff than me, we used the room for the cot (which would not have fitted in our room once they outgrew the moses basket) all the nappies, wipes, clothes etc.

definitely not a Mumsnet-only issue!

I think it depends on your social circle. I see it a lot around me, but of course it's a non-issue for a lot of people.

But why does it matter if a girl likes pink and a boy likes blue? That is the part I have never understood. Maybe I am misunderstanding what the issue is then?

But long hair can hamper your ability to do certain things easily. It gets in your way, it gets trapped in things, it gets pulled accidently. It takes time to wash and brush, I've seen those mum's with DDs with long hair at swimming lessons, it's all such a faff.

Same with dresses to some extent. Ok they can be cool in hot weather, but also difficult to play in if a long floaty type.

A pink tshirt does not stop you doing anything, it's practical. You can even hand it down to your baby brother if you're going to be truly gender neutral (it works both ways no?)

DD has pink bedding. It has the Powerpuff Girls on. You know those super cool, kick ass female superhero girls that save the world every episode and are being brought up by a single dad. She luffs them. She wants to be one when she grows up, she's 6 and old enough to know they're not real but a girl can dream can't she?

As long as no one is telling her she can't be a superhero because they're all boys I don't care a jot about the pink bedding.

For me I choose to avoid and limit pink as much as I can for dd simpy because I hate all this pink princessy crap. 'Oh your a girl you must wear pink glittery stuff head to toe and have the long hair and be pretty and sweet' no my dd can be who she wants to be she can wear all colours which will sometimes include pink but I will not put her in this uniform of pink that I often see.
Call me a snob my oh does :) but bottom line for me is my dd should be given the chance to be an individual she might grow up to be a tom-boy or she may well want dress entirely in pink with hair to her bum by 7 but I won't be forcing it on her

Zany I think the colours themselves aren't really the problem - it's more the principle behind it, the fact that there are "things for girls" and "things for boys". Obviously it still looks quite innocent when it's about the colour of a nursery wall, but the idea is that if you want girls to achieve equality in the workplace and in society in general, it's not a great idea to teach our kids that there are things a girl can't wear/do because they are "for boys" (and vice-versa).

There are a limited number of places that don't have the pastel pink and blue aisles of doom. Its marketing. Brands have realised they can sell more by creating the blue for boys, pink for girls thing. People feel like they can not use the pink clothes they had for their daughter when they then have a son. Therefore they go out and buy more. There is less profit in selling bright colours not associated with a gender, because it is more likely to be reused by subsequent children.

Totally agree with RedToothBrush here!

Someone said to me, with a sad tone of voice "oh you will have paint the baby's room cream if you aren't finding out the sex".

I have just smiled and nodded.

Wishful;

" For me I choose...... simpy because I hate all this pink princessy crap..... I will not put her in this uniform of pink..... bottom line for me is my dd should be given the chance to be an individual "

Can you really not see the irony?

I too would like to be a powerpuff girl when I grow up.

But like I said I limit it but she does have pink, she also has blue and green and red etc it's about choices

The problem comes when you get a girl who prefers blue,or a boy like my ds2 who likes pink,and you have a society where they are constantly punished for not conforming.

Ds2 is 6 and since the age of 3 has had to endure relentless censure from both adults and other children for crimes such as having a (beloved) pink scooter. He would love a pink bedroom but has opted not to have one to avoid teasing (he's having apink duvet that can be hidden instead).

Where as, in an ideal world, we could all just like what we like.

ahh yes...

"Feminism is all about choice - but not all choices are equally feminist"

The most enlightening thing I ever read on MN.

Saucy you may assume what you like but my DD does have free choice over her clothes and currently chooses 'girlie' and 'boysey' options with approximately equal frequency.

ratfans don't worry I know my wonderful free spirited daughter will be eaten by the monster named conformity....but at least I as her parent will not have done it to her. I will never have encouraged her to conform to stereotypes myself, the blame will lie at the feet of society as a whole and people who brand their kids blue or pink before they are even born specifically.

But as an adult some things are for females and some are for males. You don't get gender neutral adult clothing do you? And ok a lot of that is to do with our different body shapes, but your don't get men in dresses and I can't see any reason for this apart from tradition.

And men don't wear make up. They just can't get away with it unless they're a new romantic and make a big fashion statement about it.

So why are we pretending that life ISN'T like that to our kids. They aren't stoopid you know. They can see the hypocrisy.

I think people just get too focused on the pink thing, and forget about the real issue. Which is that my DD can't be a bin man if she wants too

DISCLAIMER: actually she might. Things have probably changed now. But when I was 19 my friend rang up about a summer job as a bin person and was told she couldn't have the job BECAUSE SHE WAS A GIRL.

The worst of the worst are the people who want their babies to have a specific gender so that they will have someone to play football with / go shopping with as required.

Its a bloody good job my DM wasn't after a shopping buddy when she had me, coz what she got was a sporty, scientist with zero interest in fashion, clothes etc. Its also a good job my DF wasn't after a football buddy when my DB was born, coz what he got was a Gilbert and Sullivan aficionado....

Hate pink. DDs have also never been v keen on the colour. It's easy to avoid it [just buy boys' clothes ].

ratfans I agree the adult world is polarized...but the adult world is also genuinely racist. We have a choice to perpetuate and introduce our kids to racism because that is the truth of the real world, or argue against it in the hopes that the world of the future shows equality.

We can prepare our kids for sexism in the real world by telling them from the get go that certain toys activities clothes aren't for boys / girls or we can tell them they can be whatever they want in the hopes that by believing it they will make it true.

Already on this thread, we've had the statement that for a grown-up to have home decor coded as overly feminine means they are either a pathetic woman or an insufficiently masculine man. That is typical of the retrogressive attitudes propping up anti-pink/supposedly gender neutral sentiments.

No, I was responding in agreement to someone who had said that decorating that screams boy or girl is a bit naff.

I would think exactly that same and be equally if a family kitted their son and entire house out with a football theme

ice I applaud you- you have worded my thoughts perfectly that's exactly what I'm trying to do by limiting the pinkness - its about showing her that she doesnt have to conform to the stereotype that's exactly it. All these identikit uniforms make me sad

don't worry I know my wonderful free spirited daughter will be eaten by the monster named conformity....

LOL

wish most of what I have said is plagiarised from other more informed MNers!

I think as a parent one should do a little to apply the opposite bias to the damaging biases applied by society. So while I haven't banned dresses and pink entirely from DD's horizon I may exert a little negating pressure against the megawatt output from society telling her she should be in pink frilly dresses.

Society tells her that her main attribute is physical attractiveness...so I talk to her much more about her strength, bravery and cleverness.

When she told me at aged 2 (nearly 3) that "the engineer can't be called Dotty because Dotty is a girls name and girls aren't engineers" I put the competing case rather strongly...for days...weeks.

Keeping your DD away from pink isn't limiting their choices so much as limiting the damage. They will still end up more pink then anything else but at least you made the case for being your own person first.

I seem to have been eaten by the florid prose monster...time to get writing grant proposals I think!