to be getting hot and bothered about the Vit D push?

[stinkingbishop]

I am prepared to be corrected but, having been hassled yet again by the HV about giving the twins Vit D because of the oft cited 'rise in Rickets', and saying, again, that they had a good diet, including oily fish, and play outside, and again being made to feel like I am stubborn/neglectful, I am getting rather worked up.

As I understand it, one of the main reasons we all have different coloured skin is because we have evolved to be able to absorb the optimum amount of Vit D from the sun (or rather for the sun to catalyse our absorption). Those in very sunny climes have darker skin so they don't overload; us peely wallies are that way because we have such brief windows. Interestingly, it's why Inuits have darker skin than, say, Scandinavians, because they eat so much fish. Very clever, Nature.

Vit D deficiency is caused by a mismatch between your current environment and what you evolved for. So someone whose ancestors lived in the Congo and is now in Stornoway really needs to eat a lot of herring. It's compounded by inner city living eg not having a garden, being inside most of the time. And also strikes some Asian populations because of vegetarian diets and processed flours used in eg chapatis, and because of a culture of covering up, especially girls, and staying at home.

I can't find anything online which shows the incidence of Rickets amongst caucasian children in Britain who play outside regularly (15 mins a day) and have a good diet. Is there anything? Have there been cases? Where should I be looking?

If it genuinely is a problem, I will calm down. But at the moment I just wonder to what extent this national, indiscriminatory push is motivated by the Government's desire not to be seen as racially profiling (but we SHOULD profile for some conditions, because your ethnicity does correlate with various issues and potential issues) and/or because they're using some research funded by whoever it is manufactures the supplements (I have no evidence of this because again I can't find anything).

So, do I calm down, or do I fire something off to whoever is in charge of briefing Health Visitors? It just seems yet another thing to beat nervous, unsure new Mums with. For the vast majority of whom, if I'm correct, this is a complete non-issue.

Moid I'm aware of OMS, they have a forum too but it's not so busy.

Daisy OMS is Overcoming Multiple Sclerosis

Moid is right, people can get a bit fanatical. I think the best thing to do is look at all the options, try them out for a while and see what works for you.

Overcoming Multiple Sclersosis - google it, has got a whole website devoted to it.

Basically low sat fat(10g or under), no dairy, no meat, only good cold pressed oils, fish oil, Vit D, exercise & meditation. A quick summary. Lots of strong anecdotal evidence over30 years or so that it halts and even reverses MS decline.

Very difficult to appraise treatments for relapsing-remitting conditions, though. My relapses last years sometimes and, if/when I get a remission, it's tempting to attribute it to the last change I made. Watching very slowly & carefully is the greater challenge, particularly as we all want to find The Answer!

I don't trust meat-free diets. Red meat provides amino acids and other nutrients in forms that are unavailable through other foods. Although, I guess you can compensate for that with supplements if it suits your preferences. I've just mentally priced up all the supps against a pound of beef a week, and am staying red in tooth & claw

Am I right in thinking that everyone on here has some sort of condition, and that is why you are all on Vit D?

setting I don't think everyone on this thread has something. Some of us do and that's why we're more aware of it that's all.
Personally I think if I had known about Vit D years ago and been taking it there's a possibility I may not have MS.

Same as speaker, I'm convinced that had I had enough Vit D my condition would not have been triggered. But not that it has I have to work damned hard to get it under control. I also am very concerned that I prevent the trigger effect in my kids, I can do nothing about their genetics - autoimmune exists on both sides.

Yes prevention is better than cure. DH and the DC take vitamin D, none of them have anything but it's not worth the risk not to.

Moid - does your exclusion list include eggs? Because if so, then you need to be taking a vit K2 supplement as well, to avoid excess calcium in your body being placed in areas it shouldn't be (the biggest risk from taking high dose vit D without K2).
Vit K2 is found in grass fed dairy products and animal products - animal fat from grass fed animals should be yellower (this is a good thing!) and from grass-fed chicken egg yolks - the deeper yellow the better. Your exclusion diet will exclude all these natural sources of vit K2, so you're relying heavily on the teeny amount produced in your gut, which is unlikely to be sufficient - hence the need for K2 supplementation (and from what I've read, MQ7 is the way to go)

setting it's not that everyone has a condition and that's why they taking vitamin d, but rather the vitamin d deficiency that many have may be contributing to their conditions. I personally have no "conditions" (other than freckles and a big mouth), but find make sure that I have appropriate levels of vitamin d so that I don't develop any. It's being shown over and over in the scientific research lately how important Vitamin D is to many things beyond the osteoporosis that we have been told about by our doctors (you need vitamin d to make the calcium work).
Interesting about the OMS levels being suggested at 200 while it's 40-60 for most others. There is some conversation amongst the scientists about how to measure vitamin d and what measurements are significant. I can't explain it because I haven't gotten it out of my dad in layman's terms yet (that can be a several month project), but it's certainly interesting to note.

I think that it would be highly beneficial for you to discover your units, Sofia - because my blood result reference range is 75-200 nmol/L. Your ref range is clearly in different units and this needs to be clarified because otherwise people are going to be getting the wrong messages about their levels, depending on which country they are in, which units are used and what the reference (normal) range is.

I don't have any condition other than tiredness, however the company I work for has an interest in Vit D research so we do talk about it at work, share articles about it etc. DS has autism, DH has diabetes, I have had alopecia (another autoimmune disorder), we are going to get checked just in case.

Interesting Thumbwitch my range for normal was given at the last test as 75 - 250nmol/l.
To convert to the American units you need to divide by 2.5 giving you ng/ml...... A range of between 30-100ng/ml.

I'm planning on keeping my levels up at around 180nmol - 225nmol, should be there on next check and then it's just a maintenance dose.

I haven't had mine checked since I was pg, probably should get it done again just to check my 4000IU/d is achieving something!

Thanks rainyday...I had no idea the uk was using a different set of units! I was told by my father than the experts tell him that the "sweet spot" for levels is 40-60ng/ml (which would translate to the uk units as 100-150nmol/l as a sweet spot). Mine came back at 98ng/ml after I started taking 5000iu a day (because my dad nagged me so much....he spends so much time in the lab that he can't conceive that I might get a little more sunshine on a normal day than he does!).

I am soooo enjoying this thread!

I gues I don't have any condition as such either. But I came to all of this because of niggling health issues (sinusitis, bloating, fatigue) that started after the birth of my second child.

The NHS could offer me only steroids and sinus surgery. So began a long quest and a lot of reading.... Luckily I'm a geek :)

For me, vitamin D is just a small part of much bigger picture of my overall diet. I suspect vitamin D wasn't a massive issue for me. But I had crap gut flora, inflammation and food intolerances. My GP and ENT consultant poo poo'd this.

Ironically, my previous diet in the eyes of the NHS looked great. Low fat, processed vegetable oils, lots of whole meal bread and pasta, lots of fruit smoothies.

I feel lucky to have stumbled upon a completely different way of thinking. It massively pisses me off that the NHS does not properly consider nutrition.

sofia I'm loving this thread too. There is a great paleo thread on mumsnet somewhere which is similar (although I'm not really paleo as its too low carb for me)

Sofia - I am soooo enjoying this thread!

Me too. I've nominated it for classics because of the sheer amount of good information that others could find useful. MN suggested putting it in general health but I don't think so many would see it there. Sad if it got lost in the many many pages of aibu.

Me too, I've learned SO much and am forwarding thread to a couple of friends who have chronic conditions as they, like me, are trying to find out more.

For completeness, can I throw in the supplement that is iodine? I take a low dose of iodine and eat white fish/shellfish. If you have an autoimmune disease like hashimotos you have to be v careful and ditch the wheat first. But iodine is another one many of us are deficient in.

Would love to hear Dr Ames' take on iodine too... Can I come to your house for Christmas :)

Well, my mother (she too is a professor of Biochemistry with a specialty in genetics and the transport system of cells) thinks I get too much iodine in my diet (not sure if there is any logic or fact to this assumption....she is after all a jewish, catholic italian so there is a lot of empty guilt mixed into the advice)....and she frowns every time I buy salt fortified with iodine (do they do that in the uk too?). I have yet to hear my father's opinion on the subject.

sofia what a family :) your parents' chit chat must be baffling.... I thought iodine was another essential. I feel much better for taking it. You don't really get iodised salt here...

Salt fortified with iodine isn't a big thing here, maybe I don't notice it so much because I'm addicted to Maldon sea salt!
Agree for me this is more than just about Vit d3. It's about getting enough sleep, controlling stress levels, removing processed foods, eating nutrient dense foods. Finding out whether some foods have a negative effect on me through the elimination stage atm and taking regular exercise and trying to find an anti inflammatory that works - I currently take turmeric with black pepper supplements and zinc. I keep a very detailed diary of diet symptoms, feelings and events.
In other words I'm looking after myself in the hope that my body will have all the tools it needs to heal itself.

I spotted that, daddy. Our salt used to be iodised. I noticed a few years ago that it isn't any more, so I switched to sea salt. I've got an underactive thyroid and am not about to remove the one reliable source of iodine from my diet!

You should see the bigger family gatherings. My cousin is the chief scientist for the Juno project at JPL (sent a rocket off to jupiter) and used to be on the SETI project (finding life in outer space) and my other cousin is a very successful installation artist and her mother is a successful mixed media artist...."normal" is the biggest insult you can lob at one of our family

Agree rainy. I think humans have a huge capacity to heal once we get the basics right. Let's hope so, given my appalling diet being a child of the eighties

garlic you can get iodised salt off amazon. But I think Maldon sea salt is generally better for you. White fish and shell fish are also great natural sources if iodine. Re iodine supplements, I started with low dose potassium iodide which I did well on but have recently switched to Seagreens capsules which are fab....