to be getting hot and bothered about the Vit D push?

[stinkingbishop]

I am prepared to be corrected but, having been hassled yet again by the HV about giving the twins Vit D because of the oft cited 'rise in Rickets', and saying, again, that they had a good diet, including oily fish, and play outside, and again being made to feel like I am stubborn/neglectful, I am getting rather worked up.

As I understand it, one of the main reasons we all have different coloured skin is because we have evolved to be able to absorb the optimum amount of Vit D from the sun (or rather for the sun to catalyse our absorption). Those in very sunny climes have darker skin so they don't overload; us peely wallies are that way because we have such brief windows. Interestingly, it's why Inuits have darker skin than, say, Scandinavians, because they eat so much fish. Very clever, Nature.

Vit D deficiency is caused by a mismatch between your current environment and what you evolved for. So someone whose ancestors lived in the Congo and is now in Stornoway really needs to eat a lot of herring. It's compounded by inner city living eg not having a garden, being inside most of the time. And also strikes some Asian populations because of vegetarian diets and processed flours used in eg chapatis, and because of a culture of covering up, especially girls, and staying at home.

I can't find anything online which shows the incidence of Rickets amongst caucasian children in Britain who play outside regularly (15 mins a day) and have a good diet. Is there anything? Have there been cases? Where should I be looking?

If it genuinely is a problem, I will calm down. But at the moment I just wonder to what extent this national, indiscriminatory push is motivated by the Government's desire not to be seen as racially profiling (but we SHOULD profile for some conditions, because your ethnicity does correlate with various issues and potential issues) and/or because they're using some research funded by whoever it is manufactures the supplements (I have no evidence of this because again I can't find anything).

So, do I calm down, or do I fire something off to whoever is in charge of briefing Health Visitors? It just seems yet another thing to beat nervous, unsure new Mums with. For the vast majority of whom, if I'm correct, this is a complete non-issue.

[pommedeterre]

I maximise opportunities for not wearing any sunscreen outdoors for my kids and it has to be hot for me to wear it. Grim stuff.

[Stripyhoglets]

I've got a vit D deficiency, I also have fibromyalgia, high blood pressure, depression and am tired a lot, I believe the deficiency has probably contributed to these. I have a good diet but now take supplements I will be getting the kids checked too as we do avoid the sun as a family as we are all pale. I will supplement the, if they do. It's common and although it may not cause rickets a deficiency now may affect their health when older. I don't understand why you are annoyed about the HV doing her job and advising you to supplement.

[RiffyWammal]

This thread is amazing and so informative. I have MS and have long known about the link with D3 and take a supplement, but after reading this thread and the posts from the poster with the expert dad (sorry I can't find your name!) and my book by Dr Wahls (doctor with MS), I have bought a whole lot more supplements to take. £84 worth in fact! But you can't put a price on health.

I want my DGD to take vitamin D but her mom has not been convinced and I don't know if she looked at the links I sent her ages ago . I have had another chat with her today about it and she seemed more open to the idea, so I would like my DGD to have a blood test. I would be happy to pay for the at-home test but really would prefer her to get it done by her GP as then her levels could be monitored regularly to check they don't get too high (unlikely I know). Does anyone know if the GP test is a finger-prick type or the standard blood test routine? Because last time DGD had one of those she kicked up a terrible fuss in the hospital.

I have a horrible feeling that the doctor won't be up to date on vitamin d levels and will send her away with instructions to take some piddly amount like the NHS guidelines suggest, when I would be happier with her taking 1000iu as the vitamin D council advises.

[MrsPennyapple]

Thanks Garlic. I did check the small print on the labels but didn't know to look out for cholecalciferol.

[GarlicJulyKit]

Penny again - This is from the US gov health website; it gives much more detail than the NHS. Worth reading the whole page www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/929.html

The following doses have been studied in scientific research:

BY MOUTH:

For preventing osteoporosis and fractures: 400-1000 IU per day has been used for older adults. Some experts recommended higher doses of 1000-2000 IU daily.
For preventing falls: 800-1000 IU/day has been used in combination with calcium 1000-1200 mg/day.
For preventing multiple sclerosis (MS): long-term consumption of at least 400 IU per day, mainly in the form of a multivitamin supplement, has been used.
For preventing all cancer types: calcium 1400-1500 mg/day plus vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) 1100 IU/day in postmenopausal women has been used.
For muscle pain caused by medications called "statins": vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol) or vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) 50,000 units once a week or 400 IU daily.
For preventing the flu: vitamin D (cholecalciferol) 1200 IU daily.

[GarlicJulyKit]

Here's an answer off the interwebs, Penny:


German researcher Adolf Windaus first discovered 3 forms of vitamin D, which he called D1, D2, and D3. It was later learned that the vitamin D1 was a mixture of compounds rather than a pure vitamin D product, so the term D1 is no longer used.

The term "Vitamin D" now refers to several different forms.
The two forms important in humans are : ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) and cholecalciferol (vitamin D3). Vitamin D2 is a synthetic form (man made) and Vitamin D3 is the internal form that we make.


If you look on the labels, most actually say D3 or cholecalciferol on the bit where it tells you the dose :)

Thanks, Misc you made me feel a bit soppy!

[MrsPennyapple]

I'm gradually working my way through this thread but am wondering about the difference between Vitamin D and D3 - I was looking for a supplement for the DCs (and myself) but a lot of them just state "Vitamin D" so I'm not sure whether they would be sufficient.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

Garlic I'm sorry to hear that.

Here are a few buckets of supportive thoughts and hopes and hugs, to dip into when you run low x

[WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes]

Top tip for anyone doing the hospital blood tests at home, we've just done ours. The forms and the sample cards have matching bar codes, make sure you fill in the forms and the matching cards before you start, we did the tests first, then I started filling in the forms and muddled them all up.

[GarlicJulyKit]

Thanks, Misc :) I need all the support I can get at the moment.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

I have that d3 & k2 brand but in spray format. Seems ok so far, but only been taking for 6 weeks...

Good luck

[GarlicJulyKit]

I've just ordered:
this D3 + K2,
this B12, and
this L-carnitine.
My choices were based on milligrams per £. I should have enough for around 3 months, costing £22.
I would have bought this 200mg coQ10 at £10.21 for 90 as well, but it's a bit expensive on top of the others.

Three months should be enough to tell if I'm getting any better!

[ChickenMe]

Very interesting thread. For my part I'd like to add that I switched to non-chemical sunscreens about four years ago after having read about potential links between chemical sunscreens and skin cancer. Mark Sisson and Barry Groves have written about this topic and the latter has a good chapter about Vitamin D in his book "Trick And Treat". Interestingly, Mark proposes that once you irradicate vegetable oils and up your saturated fats you should burn less in the sun..

[Moid1]

When I started taking Vit D I immediately felt better and more positive. I started with a megadose of 100,000 iu, then settled in after a couple of weeks to 10,000 a day. Haven't had a retest, my doctor won't give me one and too tight to do it privately.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Thanks to this thread I have ordered a vitD3 spray for DD and myself (I plan 1000 for her/5000 for me) and some k2 tablets for me (I'm vegan so very few food sources of k2). I'm hoping DD will be OK with just dietary k2 as I'm only going to give her 1000iu vitD and she's a veggie so eats lots of cheese.

[oohdaddypig]

Yes, of course x

[Coumarin]

daddypig Thank you. Sorry to hear you've been through that. It's awful isn't it? (Understatement of the year there.) Glad it worked for you in the end.

I do have a quick question actually if you don't mind a pm? Although I'll have to wait until later when I have better internet connection.

[oohdaddypig]

coumarin it's so stressful, isn't it. Sadly, even ICSI couldn't help us so we are donor sperm IUI. No one knows this, so it's weird saying so anonymously on mumsnet.

The reason I say all this is that donor sperm IUI is with frozen sperm so the sperm is a bit slow and for various reasons, we did unmedicated natural cycle IUI. So our chances of success were low and I wanted to maximise my fertility.

My clinic also were a bit low on advice other than "don't smoke" and "dont' stress". the first is easy, the second - mmm, thanks for that! I didn't know anything like what I do now, first time round, so that took 3 shots even though I was early 30s. I wish I had known then, what I know now.

I also used accupuncture and feel that helped a lot.

PM if you want to chat more..

[Coumarin]

Thank you Thumbwitch and rainyday That's as I suspected. I'm at the GP next week so I'll ask their opinion on it. Can't harm to ask.

[Coumarin]

Thank you for the pointers and advice Daddypig Ours is on DH's side of things too. Unfortunately icsi is our only option. We've had some amazing results using supplements for him but there was no real advice for me even though I constantly asked them.

I'll check all those out.

[Thumbwitch]

OVerdosing on vit D itself is quite hard and rare - but taking too much vit D regularly can lead to hypercalcaemia and hypercalciuria (excess calcium in the blood and urine) which can cause calcium deposition in blood vessels and kidneys.

[SpeakerOut]

You may find this information interesting from the Vitamin D Council.

Different organizations recommend different daily intakes. Here are the recommendations from some organizations in the United States:

Recommended daily intakes from various organizations:

Vitamin D Council
Infants: 1,000 IU/day
Children: 1,000 IU/day per 25lbs of body weight
Adults: 5,000 IU/day

Endocrine Society
Infants: 400-1,000 IU/day
Children: 600-1,000 IU/day
Adults: 1,500-2,000 IU/day

Food and Nutrition Board
Infants: 400 IU/day
Children: 600 IU/day
Adults: 600 IU/day, 800 IU/day for seniors

[SpeakerOut]

I take 10,000 IU a day and have done for a couple of years. 20,000 IU seems low to me and with that I would start feeling quite tired a lot. I haven't had a test since before I initially started on them.

You would have to take 40-50,000 IU a day for months to overdose on it. I read that it's extremely rare to have too much and usually when that happens someone has taken a monthly dose daily by mistake.

[LongTimeLurking]

Moid1
I'm just interested in how long you have been taking 10,000 IU a day for and do you get tests checking what your levels are?

I'm taking 20,000 IU a week which I thought was quite a lot really.

[oohdaddypig]

coumarin years ago I had winter anxiety too, and that is something else that has settled for me in the last few years. For me, it was something other than vitamin D as that is the one thing that was probably ok for me.

Look at what paul jaminet says on levels of choline and folate in women TTC (5 egg yolks a day!) he is on //www.perfecthealthdiet.com Another guy from the US -Chris Kesser - also did a great piece on maximising fertility. Also, have you had your TSH level checked as part of a thyroid check? In the UK they will say under 4 ish is fine but a lot of folk are saying for maximising general health and fertility, you want it under 2. You might want to think about completely chucking gluten.... Have a look at these websites and let me know what you think....

I have a real interest in the fertility stuff as sadly my DH has issues so we can only conceive through IUI. So I have spent hours reading up on this but I appreciate mine is just one view from a crazy MN-netter!

Finally I would take a really good probiotic, like biokult. Tis expensive so you can also cheaply and easily ferment your veg as a great source of probiotics for your tummy...