to be getting hot and bothered about the Vit D push?

[stinkingbishop]

I am prepared to be corrected but, having been hassled yet again by the HV about giving the twins Vit D because of the oft cited 'rise in Rickets', and saying, again, that they had a good diet, including oily fish, and play outside, and again being made to feel like I am stubborn/neglectful, I am getting rather worked up.

As I understand it, one of the main reasons we all have different coloured skin is because we have evolved to be able to absorb the optimum amount of Vit D from the sun (or rather for the sun to catalyse our absorption). Those in very sunny climes have darker skin so they don't overload; us peely wallies are that way because we have such brief windows. Interestingly, it's why Inuits have darker skin than, say, Scandinavians, because they eat so much fish. Very clever, Nature.

Vit D deficiency is caused by a mismatch between your current environment and what you evolved for. So someone whose ancestors lived in the Congo and is now in Stornoway really needs to eat a lot of herring. It's compounded by inner city living eg not having a garden, being inside most of the time. And also strikes some Asian populations because of vegetarian diets and processed flours used in eg chapatis, and because of a culture of covering up, especially girls, and staying at home.

I can't find anything online which shows the incidence of Rickets amongst caucasian children in Britain who play outside regularly (15 mins a day) and have a good diet. Is there anything? Have there been cases? Where should I be looking?

If it genuinely is a problem, I will calm down. But at the moment I just wonder to what extent this national, indiscriminatory push is motivated by the Government's desire not to be seen as racially profiling (but we SHOULD profile for some conditions, because your ethnicity does correlate with various issues and potential issues) and/or because they're using some research funded by whoever it is manufactures the supplements (I have no evidence of this because again I can't find anything).

So, do I calm down, or do I fire something off to whoever is in charge of briefing Health Visitors? It just seems yet another thing to beat nervous, unsure new Mums with. For the vast majority of whom, if I'm correct, this is a complete non-issue.

[PixieofCatan]

Daisy I'm currently undergoing a diagnosis for Fibro, the doctor thinks that until my VitD deficiency is more stable they won't officially diagnose me as it can cause many of the same symptoms, which is interesting! Interesting to know that they are linked anyway though, it would explain why my fibro was easier to 'control' when I was working outdoors and in the year following!

[daisychicken]

I'm interested to hear that Pixie. I'm actually seeing my GP again tomorrow and am thinking of asking if I can be retested to see if the supplements I've been taking are actually helping get my level back within normal range.

[squoosh]

Vitamin D supplements cured my psoriasis when nothing else had any effect. I'm eternally grateful.

[Toothytwo]

How do you know how much to take?

[SpeakerOut]

There's no point getting mine tested - they're just not deficient

With all due respect, you don't know this unless you have had them tested.

I live in a hot sunny country that gets loads more sun than the UK and was dx with MS. My vit D levels were through the floor, my doctor said I couldn't be low because of where we live but she was wrong and I now take a high dose and most of my symptoms have gone. Some people don't absorb it as well as others.

A friends LO has also recently been tested and he had rickets level deficiency according to his doctor (they are in UK). My friend was shocked because his diet is good and she makes sure he gets plenty of sun.

You just don't know unless you have it tested and yy to the person that said it's about prevention. It's very difficult to overdose on vit D so why wouldn't you err on the side of caution.

[SpeakerOut]

Make sure it's D3 you take. Most children's Vit D in supplements is D2 which is nowhere near as good (absorbed). You can get adults ones and split the caps and squeeze onto toast/in food/direct in mouth, whatever works.

[MyFairyKing]

The blood tests aren't overly expensive, maybe pay for a private one for peace of mind?

[CouldntGiveAMonkeysToss]

YABU. I am white (though my skin is quite olive-I never burn), I spend loads of time outside daily and don't wear sun cream. Every winter since my teens I have felt like total shite, really really lethargic and depressed. A yeat ago my symptoms didn't get better when the spring came, they got worse. I had aching joints, widespread pain, tingling sensations, was ill constantly, had anxiety and low mood. GP did blood tests, all were fine except I had low vitamin D. I took supplements and the difference is amazing. Last winter I felt fine! I started supplementing my children too and don't slather sun cream all over them. If I was vit d deficient I think most people must be!

[Timeisawastin]

I had undetectable Vit D levels a few years. It solved the mystery of why at 35, I could barely shuffle a few steps without pain, went up and down the steps on my bum and had to use the arms of a chair to rise. Every bone in my body felt bruised when I was even slightly knocked, especially my sternum and my chest. Rheumatologist and Physio reckoned it was Fibromyalgia but I insisted on Vit D testing. Guess who was right!

[MeerkatTargaryen]

I think it is becoming an increasing problem with poor diets and sunscreen. I had low vit d and was on supplements for a couple of months. Found out today it is back to normal. I was asymptomatic though audit hasn't made any difference to me being 'well' but then I also have a potential autoimmune disease so generally feel crap a lot of the time lol.

Unfortunately with the NHS they need to promote whatever they are campaigning for at the time. So for you its kids vit d. of course not everyone will need the promotion but a lot of people will benefit from it. The health visitor doesn't know who needs it or not so will generally promote to everyone. Health promotion is proven to be a good way of changing habits of people and empowering them to make positive changes to their health and wellbeing. Yabu to question this. I'm a healthier professional but not a health visitor.

[Anotheronesoon]

It's not just rickets-there is lots of emerging research on links between low vit d and auto immune diseases such as lupus and type 1 diabetes.

[ikeaismylocal]

I think for the sake of a couple of pounds you might as well give your child vitamin d drops.

I live in Sweden and all young children are given free vitamin d drops from birth despite oily fish being popular and children spending much more time outside than British children.

Yes caucasian people have pale skin that more easily absorbs vitamin d in northern countries but people evolved to spend the majority of time outside and not to wear sun protection, unless your children spend nearly all of their waking houses outside with no sun protection ( which would be fairly irresponsible) it is silly to refer to how white people have evolved to absorb more vitamin d.

[Booboostoo]

My BIL is white and lives inAthens and is still vit D deficient.

Vit D is recommended as standard to all children in Greece, until 5yo, and France, until 2yo, countries that have much higher sun exposure than the UK.

My gynea recommended vit D for me during this pregnancy as there is emerging evidence it may prevent autism.

What have you got to lose by giving it? At worst it is a tiny waste of time.

[hackmum]

In my experiences, health visitors aren't great at nuance. It's easier to tell everyone to give their children vitamin D supplements than to try and work out which are genuinely in need and which aren't. They probably have some target to meet too. Also, there's been a huge increase in awareness in recent years of the problems caused by vitamin D deficiency so, as is usual with these things, they now go overboard trying to compensate for past failures.

[0pheliaBalls]

DD has recurring severe vitamin D deficiency. She's 17 now and first became ill with it 3 years ago. It's always the same cycle - she gets ill (fainting, dizziness, painful legs, fatigue, low mood etc), we take her to the doctor, she's prescribed super strength supplements. She feels better for a few months, then it all starts again.

We have no idea what causes it - she walks three miles to and from school every day so plenty of outdoor time (though not necessarily sunshine, we live up north ). It's bloody horrible and really affects her quality of life.

[LongTimeLurking]

YABU. A diet rich in fish doesn't make you immune to vitamin D deficiency. As you can see from the replies here, plenty of people that would not expect to be deficient have been diagnosed and treated as such.

Supplements are cheap and safe, I don't understand what the issue is.

[BranchingOut]

Don't eggs help too?

[TheRealAmandaClarke]

Don't listen to your HV. She's just trying to make your life difficult. How are you supposed to manage giving your twins a vitamin d supplement? What about the terrible side effects of Abidec? She (and the DoH) are just trying to piss you off.
YADNBU.
bastards.

[RocknRollNerd]

There are relatively few natural sources of vitamin D - this list shows that (excluding sunlight) there are only a handful of things you can eat that are rich in it and I suspect at least 2 if not 3 of those (powdered milk, fortified cereal, fortified fat spreads) are things that a lot of MNers don't routinely eat/feed their children.

I'm another one just diagnosed as Vit D deficient - I'm outside a reasonable amount (walk everywhere at weekends rather than drive, love being out in the garden). I have a good diet and a couple of years ago had very good bone density when I had a scan. I'm wear sun-cream sometimes in the UK, sometimes not (light olive skin, I'll burn if I'm out all day in the midday sun on a scorcher but will be fine in the garden all afternoon on a standard 20 degree Saturday afternoon)...you just can't tell if you're Vit D deficient or not. I'm now on a massive dose of Vit D for the next 6 weeks to try to build up my levels and have been told after that to take supplements all year round - standard dose in the Summer and double dose in Winter.

[TalkinPeace]

Ophelia
she walks three miles to and from school every day so plenty of outdoor time
you have just answered the detail of the problem.

Yes, when she is walking to school she is out in the fresh air
but Vitamin D is metabolised through the skin
what proportion of her skin exposed to the sunshine on a bitingly cold day in January ....
not her legs, not her torso, not her arms, not her scalp, not much of her face
so the amount of vitamin D metabolised will be zilch

I swim outdoors year round so I'm out, nearly naked, in the sun year round.
My vitamin D levels are great (and my psoriasis is gone)
but its about the percentage of exposed skin
(and sunblock drops that by as much as clothing)

[montysma1]

I was at the beach today. My children were the only children swimming in swimsuits. Actually baby was in the buff. All were wearing sun screen.
Every other child was swimming in long sleeves, long trousered suit things plus hats. Plus application of factor one million sun screen every 5 minutes.

This is Scotland. The sun only comes out for about 30mins per year, its not Australia. I think people have gone over board with the sun phobia/skin cancer stuff.

At school they are only allowed out doors in summer with coats or cardis to cover their arms. Ludicrous.

[MyFairyKing]

I think some people are feeling criticised by HCPs when it could not be further from the truth. The best source of vitamin D is the sun and you don't have an awful lot of control over that!

[Wibblypiglikesbananas]

I live in the US but am British. All babies here are given VitD supplements as standard.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

How strange you'd have a problem with this! Feels really random, but I guess I haven't had the irritating hcp or whatever has wound you up!

I had hyperparathyroidism, caused by low vit d, probably tipped over into such a bad crisis due to pregnancy and bf.

My body had such low amounts of vit d my body went into a crazy hyperdrive and stripped bones of calcium and excreted it through my kidneys. It's not just a bit of a problem. I broke bones, muscle pain, tiredness, depression, confusion, kidney damage ... Oh and my teeth ate wrecked.

I was lucky they managed to reverse it as it was so bad the consultant said afterwards she thought 'they'd lost me'.

I'll probably get early onset osteoporosis though. It's done a fuck of alot of damage. MS is also a possibility.

So really, don't get upset by someone to avoid this happening to you or your children! There's an easy prevention, and so don't sweat it, there are other things to worry about more.

Ps I'm white, very white! Consultant said there's a definite correlation between being very fair therefore can't look at the sun without burning, and vit d deficiency.

[BOFster]

How much do you have to supplement? I'm assuming that the amounts in multivitamins aren't enough?