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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In thinking this is absolutely not the child or parents fault

137 replies

NeedsAsockamnesty · 07/07/2014 22:11

I've spoken to my brother today his nearly 3yo daughter is cared for whilst he works by a outstanding registered child minder with quite a few years experience.

He's distraught because today the child minder phoned him requesting he collect the child earlier than usual as she had been being very very naughty, at this point no other information was provided.

It turns out the childminder had been on a day out and the not quite 3 year old was able to escape a apparently fully enclosed area and be missing long enough to escape the venue and be seen by a member of the public in a very very dangerous situation in a adjoining location (think potential to be killed). The total stranger grabbed the child (who was wearing a hi vis vest matching the childminders) and located the childminder and had a good old rant at her threatening to report her to children's services and apparently it shook the child minder up.

The childminder ranted at him about how dreadfully behaved the child is to the point that he was apologising and at no time took any responsibility for her role in the incident. She said she hadn't noticed his daughter was missing.

During the course of the conversation the childminder stated it had shaken her up because a related child had several years ago died in her care it sounded like a preventable incident caused by inappropriate supervision and she didn't want to have his daughter again because she's a disruptive horror and the child's fault the stranger yelled at her.

We are talking about a very little 2 years and 10 month old child. Surely the minder should take responsibility for what happened?

I've suggested he does not use her again and does report but he's now doubting whose responsible.

My brother does know I've posted this

OP posts:
Bogeyface · 08/07/2014 00:00

How long has the child been in this CMs care? Funny how she only has an issue with her "disruptive" behaviour on the day that the child goes missing in the CMs care isnt it?

Just saying...

Original poster
NeedsAsockamnesty · 08/07/2014 00:13

It's only been about 3 months so far.

And I quite agree,not withstanding that I am aware my niece does need firm boundaries and very good supervision and could be described as a handful but still she's not even 3 yet

OP posts:
Bogeyface · 08/07/2014 00:23

I have a just 3 year old who is advanced socially for her age as she is the youngest of 6, so has much more confidence than many her age. I could see her wandering off in this situation and sorting herself out. That would not excuse the person I was paying to look after her, allowing that to happen. She is 3. Yes she is a confident and verbally precocious 3, but she is still 3.

She wanted a scapegoat and your DN was there. Tell your brother, MN is behind him and we could consider it a favour if he reported this woman. For all I know, she could be in my town, she could be the woman I engage for after school care for my younger ones. If I knew that she had done this and he hadnt reported it, so putting my kids at risk of the same, then I would be bloody pissed off with him tbh. But say it in a nice way Wink

Original poster
NeedsAsockamnesty · 08/07/2014 00:42

I'm actually going to point him to it so he can read himself

OP posts:
thornyhousewife · 08/07/2014 06:57

I feel sorry for your brother - he would have been shocked to hear what had happened and I imagine wasn't thinking straight.

The childminder absolutely should be reported to ofsted at the earliest opportunity. It sounds as though she should not be in charge of children. She may even need counselling.

shockinglybadteacher · 08/07/2014 07:16

The horror of the other child dying while she was there may mean she's no longer suitable for childminding - it has upset her too much. I don't think I could return to childminding after that (she was not there in a professional capacity from what sock says, but it's bound to influence her actions and behaviour).

sock Agree with rest of thread, It was not the wean's fault and this is not a good childminder. I feel rather sorry for her, but she shouldn't be continuing in the role.

VictorianGrandchild · 08/07/2014 07:22

No idea. Have a little think about what relation you may be prohibited from professionally childminding. I'll have a guess at your own child? you cant pay yourself for your own services? So her own child died? and there would have been an inquest. She clearly hasn't been charged with negligence or she wouldnt be a registered CM..

WaitMonkey · 08/07/2014 07:28

Certainly report and never use her again.

adsy · 08/07/2014 07:31

I'm surprised she was so upfront with the dad about the going missing incident. Did she think it would get back to him somehow so she'd get in there first?
sounds like the stress of having a child die means she can't really cope when this sort of thing happens ( not that it should happen!) but calling to collect early indicates she was in a bit of a mental state.
I would give notice and find a new CM.
Terrible incident but I feel a bit sorry for her and can see why she is so stress.
Doesn't mean she should have responsibility for other people's children though!!

WyldChyld · 08/07/2014 07:32

Your poor brother and niece! That must have been terrifying. She sounds a right nightmare OP. I'd recommend Ofsted and also police/ social services / child protection officer

Nosynora · 08/07/2014 07:38

oscar you are being ridiculous and scaremongering people need childcare to work and as a childminder myself I am appalled that this childminder blames a baby for her own failings .

OwlCapone · 08/07/2014 07:53

The fact that a relative dies in her care is irrelevant really, so some people need to stop harping on about it.

Her standards of care fell woefully short on this occasion and should be reported. I can't imagine that this was an isolated incident of inattention, it is just one that came close to disaster and was discovered by someone else.

Altinkum · 08/07/2014 07:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

adsy · 08/07/2014 07:58

Id ask for the risk assessment on her trip to the soft play (legal requirement)
you don't have to have written risk assessments anymore. The requirement was removed last September.
Also, she may not be a member of NCMA ( which has changed its name to PACEY last year).

Altinkum · 08/07/2014 08:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

queenofthemountain · 08/07/2014 08:10

It is the chilminders fault obviously.However that does not mean the child was not naughty.i used to work in a pre-school and whilst a child of this age should never be relied upon to behave , they would certainly know that doing a runner on a trip out was very naughty.

adsy · 08/07/2014 08:22

As you know altinkum they change stuff approximately evry 2 weeks just to keep us on our toes! Can't have us all knowing what we're meant to be doing, can we?

Golightly133 · 08/07/2014 08:29

I was once picking my children up from school and found my neice walking thru the attached park aged 3 I picked he up and we walked thru and found the childminders freind looking for her when she seen her she roared at her and said what a very naughty
Little girl she had been I of course roared back and informed my sister straight away part of me wished I had just taken dn home with me and given childminder the shock of her life of course I would never have done this but I was so cross
My sister found alternative arrangements

Altinkum · 08/07/2014 08:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Frusso · 08/07/2014 08:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thegreylady · 08/07/2014 09:04

It is absolutely the total responsibility of the cm. She is trying to shift the blame onto a two year old! If you report her it could save another child from her lack of care and vigilance. If she can't watch the children she should not take them out, in fact if she can't look after them properly she shouldn't be minding them!

mummytime · 08/07/2014 09:26

YANBU - your Brother should report her. To be honest if it had been a policeman not a member of the public, the matter would have been reported to children's services. If your niece really was "a little terror" then they may have only given the child minder support and advice.

I wouldn't want a child going to this child minder as she doesn't seem to be able to take responsibility for her own actions. It is totally not acceptable for her to blame the child. Children of 2/3 etc. do wander off if allowed.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 08/07/2014 09:28

It is the chilminders fault obviously.However that does not mean the child was not naughty.i used to work in a pre-school and whilst a child of this age should never be relied upon to behave , they would certainly know that doing a runner on a trip out was very naughty.

I disagree. Whilst plenty of children might have reached a level of cognitive development that they can weigh this up with their natural desire to explore and lack of a sense of danger and know that it is naughty, most won't. Many will be able to parrot back to you in a classroom situation that it is 'naughty' because they are constantly told that by an adult. But being 'naughty' IMO involves a conscious decision to override what you know is naughty when you are in a given situation. There will be a significant number of two year olds who won't have reached a level of development that when presented with a new environment think 'oh this is the situation we talked about not running off in', rather than being overtaken by their natural desire to explore. That's not naughty, that's being 2. It's why we don't leave 2 year olds unsupervised and constantly remind them of what we expect in terms of behaviour.

If the CM knew that this child was 'badly behaved' it was up to her to adjust her mental risk assessment accordingly. Even with the best will in the world these things do very occasionally happen even to good childminders and to parents as well. As parents you probably pour a large glass of wine and think 'there but for the grace of god' that nothing tragic happened. As a child carer it's different but how you deal with it says a lot about whether it's likely to happen again. As a minimum I would expect profuse apologies, reporting off the incident to OFSTED, an explanation of what she was going to do to prevent it happening again and an offer to terminate the contract with immediate effect if I felt I could no longer trust them. I would not expect them to blame a 2 year old in any way. This CM has got it very badly wrong on absolutely every level and it doesn't sound like she's fit to be in charge of other people's children.

OwlCapone · 08/07/2014 09:29

I disagree that a not-quite-three year old would know running off is naughty. They are very much "of the moment" and, in their eyes, aren't running off but are exploring this that or the other.

I remember chasing after DS2 on a nursery trip to the seaside once. Huge wide open beach and a longer stretch of open space than he had ever seen. He bolted as the sheer joy of being able to run so fast and so far with nothing in the way was irresistible. He wasn't being naughty, he was being 4.

UsedtobeFeckless · 08/07/2014 09:43

Bloody Hell. That's not naughty that's just toddlers being toddlers! Both mine were bolters - you had to have eyes in the back of your head and/or gaffa tape their legs together ...

Your brother should report her and find a new child minder. Thank God for kind strangers!