to think that 'modesty shorts' are going to lead to trouble

[RainbowsStars]

A hypothetical young woman isn't wearing any under a shortish skirt. She goes out and is sexually assaulted. The defense know this. She is then considered to have 'asked for it' just as women used to be (I hope it is used to be) because she chose to be 'provocative' by not wearing the modesty shorts that have become a standard item for females wearing dresses and skirts.

I have a son so I was quite surprised when I heard of modesty shorts. apart from in school I can't see much of a reason for girls to wear them really.

Sorry but it's complete bollicks to assume that skimpy clothes invites male attention.

Last week a 90 year old lady was raped in Liverpool and the rape stats for Pakistan and India are horrendous.

It's hatred of women that makes men rape and GGE need of power and control

Absolutely fuck all to to with clothes.

Here in the US, they're making it against the law to ask what the woman was wearing in a sexual harassment, sexual assault case.

At my dcs school, most grins are wearing their PE short under their skirt so they can do cartwheels. You can see them sticking out the skirts (more often than big the skirts are shorter than the shorts) which tbh due any look nice et all

I can see the point if the OP. If young girls NOW are told they need shorts (and a few threads on MN will tell you a lot if posters agree with that) and boys hear that girls should indeed cover themselves better, you can see how it will be interpretated in 15 years time if said girl is wearing a skirt bit no shorts underneath.
A law saying that what the woman is wearing should never be mentioned in a court case could help but it dies set expectations.

happy of course rape is about control.

But clothes are a way to blame victims and make them think they just borough it into themselves. Which in itself is another way to control women.
That also means anything that convey the idea that women should be modest and not show their knickers at all, incl young girls, is then making that side if things worse.

my 6yo wears shorts under her school uniform if she is not wearing tights - nb they are SHORTS - not "modesty shorts".

She does spend half the day hanging upside down on monkey bars or in a handstand/cartwheel - shorts are better than dresses for these activities. But she doesn't have the option to wear shorts to school. If she could she would wear shorts and a tshirt.

I didn't say that skimpy clothes were the ONLY cause of sexual violence against women - or indeed A cause I suggested that one is likely to receive more attention depending on how one is dressed. And that perhaps one needs to be primed not to be intimidated by that (and possibly cultivate a 'back off, fucker' demeanour).

I would like this not to be so, but I want my girls to love their bodies and dress how they want without fear or shame. So neither do I feel like I can send them out like lambs to the slaughter...

Well they are not called 'modesty shorts' but that's what they are : shorts to protect the modesty of young girls playing. They are there so that they aren't showing their knickers therefore protecting their modesty.
You can call them short if you prefer but I would agree that modesty shorts are closer to their real usage.

I mean who wears shorts under a dress?

It's not a good idea to wear Lycra shorts under neath dresses in hot weather. It causes itching and encourages Vulvovaginitis girl's gentitals are not the same as boys. IMO if it's hot enough for a summer dress then cotton knickers are what should be worn underneath. If top end junior girls are self conscious then a divided skirt/ boy style shorts is a much better idea than sweaty skin tight Lycra.

I mean who wears shorts under a dress?
Athletes who are made to wear a dress?

It's not so much so people can't see their knickers, but children knickers gape and there is often more to be seen. Which could be embarrassing.

This has come up so many times before on MN - studies have been done yada yada yada.

I think focus should be on rejecting the ideas completely that "clothes are a way to blame victims" etc.

Women and girls must be free to wear what they want to wear with any accusations that either they are "attracting unwanted attention" or "letting womankind down" by wearing what each individual chooses to wear.

Be that a belt as a skirt, or shorts under their school uniform.

Lumieres exactly. As I also said up thread it's a subtle way to tell young girls thru need to cover up otherwise boys will see their knickers and be unable to control themselves.

It's an absolutely vile message for both boys and girls, and a total get out for men.

Totally backward step IMO.

Modesty shorts indeed. Ffs what next chastity belts?

Littie girls are very prone to both cystitis/kidney infections and thrush and sweaty Lycra is possibly the worst offender of this.

As a nurse I Definatly won't let my dds wear it.

Not nice.

Well I dunno about modesty shorts. I used to wear 'comfort shorts' under skirts - nothing to do with being modest, but to stop my fat thighs chafing!

Modesty shorts?

WTF?

And I can see no reason to wear them in school. I have told my dd to flash her plain white knickers with pride when doing handstands.

No different from earring seining costume IMO.

death actually I do that too. But I am a woman who is overweight and can't wear a skirt otherwise. It's not there to cover my knickers if that makes sense? I'm also NOT an 8~10yo girl.

Where I think there could be an issue is if you have a Y6 girl who already has her periods. But then I would really want to teach said teenager to learn not to show her knickers iyswim. Knickers with pads wouldn't a nice sight anywhere.

I find this thread so sad. Girls having to stop having fun because they have started to menstruate , takes me right back to being 11. Why can't the theoretically menstruating 9/10/11 year old wear dark coloured shorts ? Or tampons ?

I think there is another message in this thread associated with the word 'modesty'.
How's about this modesty burkini swimwear? Is this our next step?

There is a rather Victorian whiff to the whole concept of modesty and exerting pressure on women and girls to cover up, become less active etc.

I don't understand the 'children's knickers gape' thing. I've never seen my nieces in knickers that gape. Buy them different knickers!

So long as mothers continue to buy into the idea that it's their daughters who have to modify their behaviour or clothing, the problem will never go away.

Let your daughters wear what they like and focus on instilling respect towards women and their choices into your sons. That's where positive change will come from.

My dd was running around in a water fountain I. Just her pants yesterday.

There is a really good article on everyday feminism on modesty on Fb yesterday, worth s read will try and link later.

I've never heard of modesty shorts, and have never seen little girls wearing shorts under dresses either, obviously we're not that modest around my way!

But, in any case, it all seems pointless to me, because its likely to be a slippery slope. Many years ago, knickers were invented to cover us up, fair enough, they are practical and people like them. If we now decide that its best for the knickers to be covered by shorts, the logical next step is that it will be deemed inappropriate for anyone to see the shorts. So the shorts will have to be longer to be considered modest enough. And then after a while the longer shorts could be seen as not modest enough, so it will be 3/4 length leggings under everything. And so it goes on...

The thing is, over here, it's the school who has told the girls to wear shorts :(:(

What can you do after that? If they do they but intonation idea they need to cover themselves completely. If they don't they risk getting told off by the teacher (or won't be able to play as they please) v