to think that 'modesty shorts' are going to lead to trouble

[RainbowsStars]

A hypothetical young woman isn't wearing any under a shortish skirt. She goes out and is sexually assaulted. The defense know this. She is then considered to have 'asked for it' just as women used to be (I hope it is used to be) because she chose to be 'provocative' by not wearing the modesty shorts that have become a standard item for females wearing dresses and skirts.

I have a son so I was quite surprised when I heard of modesty shorts. apart from in school I can't see much of a reason for girls to wear them really.

That's not really the point.

They used to be part of PE uniform at my sisters school, which is an all girls school, and had been even when i was there in the 90s (we called them PE knickers) but they've moved to wearing skorts now instead, DD's prep school also wear skorts, personally i can see the benefit of them, it's much easier for self conscious girls to do sports if they aren't worried about their hockey/netball skirt blowing up, in DDs case it also stops her showing the world her knickers when she sits with her legs apart.

Hear hear oxfordbags.
Men rape women and men, girls and boys. (A very small number of women sexually assault people).

Rape a power thing, and a criminal act.

Men blame women because its easier than admitting they are part of the problem, but would they blame someone for having their wallet stolen from their pocket, saying he should have had a Velcro strip closing his pocket, or he shouldn't have taken it out to pay for something with it, thereby flaunting it!

Rape is a crime, and we don't blame any other victims of any other crime, so why blame women for being raped, when men commit the crime?

Modesty pants strike me as yet another way to proscribe women's behaviour, whereas in fact men are doing the thing that causes all the problems.

I love Golda Mier's comment that there should be a curfew at night to prevent women being raped, and that all men should stay indoors, as it's they who do the raping.

I think men should wear the shorts, if anyone has to wear them, that is.

Actually, dd2's best friend wears rather nice cotton shorts - short leggings really - under her summer school frocks. It looks very sweet in a Victorian bathing dress sort of way, & more to the point it is also cool, comfortable & practical.

Meanwhile, dd2 is wearing the exact same gingham frock with knickers & horrible sweaty tights, because she doesn't like the sensation of the metal of the playground climbing frame or the prickly classroom carpet against her bare thighs. I don't think I'd like either of those either - & I'm pretty sure that dd2 is being perfectly genuine about her reasons for not wanting bare legs. She's not in the slightest self-conscious about anyone seeing her pants.

IMO 'frock & cotton shorts' is an eminently practical school summer outfit just as 'shirt & shorts' is. Seems perfectly sensible to me, & I'm making a mental note to buy some cheap ones before next summer term.

As so often, I think it's all about the labelling. 'Modesty shorts' is a truly ghastly description: I'm reminded of 'modesty panels' on desks, so that adults don't inadvertently provide a vista up-skirt or of trousers outlining their genitals.

Not at all appropriate to describe a garment for pre-teen children, & misogynistic to boot. Just call them 'summer frock shorts' or something ffs, & let them simply be a comfortable & practical clothing option.

How is wearing an extra layer under a dress "cool"

The Duchess of Cambridge does not seem to be a fan of 'modesty' shorts and she is apparently regarded as a role model for many.

Why not just put girls in shorts in the first place? If you are worried dresses may show their knickers when they play.

Some clothing though just is more provocative than other clothing and there are those of a voyeuristic inclination who would have no more tendency to rape or assault a woman than any other man

So the answer is, yet again, for women / girls to modify their behaviour?

Wore them at primary school as at that time spent a lot upside down. Never heard of it as an adult or as a teenager. None issue

Why not just put girls in shorts in the first place? If you are worried dresses may show their knickers when they play.

Because not all schools let girls wear shorts, at DD's they have to wear dresses and DS' school lets girls wear dresses or trousers but not shorts.

Adikia : well then I would say the uniform policy needs modification. In the name of gender equality... Don't know about you, but that's a confrontation I'd be up for if it was our school...

But I'm a stroppy cow...

School uniform is a ridiculous conceit in itself anyway but that's another thread.

Can't even write such a ridiculous word as m....ty shorts as it's a bloody stupid mysogynistic concept with very nasty overtones of good girl/slut. Yeuk yeuk.

Who in earth would think shorts worn under a cotton dress would be comfy.

Thrush, sweaty bum. Horrible and silly.

Little girls flashing pants doing handstands should not and would not think twice about it unless adults are telling them too.

Good grief.

Tentedjuno you beat me to it!

These threads make me think of these. Perhaps we could call them bloomers instead of modesty shorts?

Back in the olden days when i used to go out on the razz, i always wore hotpants under minidresses, as i wore thongs. Seems i was ahead of the times!

I get a knee jerk reaction to the word "modesty" because of this sort of thing.

Um, wow, hakluyt

Somehow, I dont think she'd class my hotpants as "modest"...

Poke to a friend today on an unrelated topic and she said that she tries to explain to her daughter that certain clothing "invites" adverse male intention

I did not poke her, I spoke to her

Bloody hell

DD (11) wears shorts (in fact they're just cut off black leggings that have gone through on the knee) under her school clothes so she can hang upside down on the monkey bars to her hearts content (which is basically all the time). I wasn't keen initially, but now I just let her get on with it. DD2 (7) does not wear shorts underneath her uniform.

Broken, if DD wanted to wear shorts I might but DD hates shorts so it'd be a bit pointless, I'm focusing more on the please can we change the colour of the tights to one Asda/M&S/anywhere other than the uniform shop sells.

Besides I don't believe it is gender equality to give the girls more choice than the boys, so would only support a change in the uniform if it was to change it to allow boys to wear skirts/summer dresses too (I realise there are unlikely to be many boys choosing dresses but in the 5 years since DS' school have allowed trousers I've only seen one girl wear them).

Is this a state school? Because I thought they cannot make compulsory logo-ed items or items not generally available, or available only through a monopoly supplier. (Although they can encourage take up of, eg logo-ed cardis / jumpers, by secondhand sales. This is unlikely to work for tights.)

All uniform policy should be equal and equivalent, even if it sounds ridiculous. Earrings, long hair, skirts...

Rufus: 'invite' is clearly the wrong word. I do think that it is fair to warn a girl going out in skimpy clothing that she may receive some unwanted attention - and while any assumptions made about her would be wrong, she needs to think how she's going to deal with that.

no its private, DS' is at state though and I'm pretty sure his jumpers have to be logo-ed, although that may just be encouraged, I've never checked.