To wonder why people hate immigration/immigrants so much?

[PeachyParisian]

I don't mean to the UK specifically, but within Europe, worldwide..

Does it boil down to a sense of entitlement? i.e. I was born here so i deserve to reap the benefits of my ancestors hard work.
Also I suppose economic migration is completely different to fleeing to claim asylum although I see no differentiation made in the UK media.
Its always about "benefits tourism"/"generous benefits given to asylum seekers".
I'm an expat, DH is non-EU and we are planning on moving to the UK this year and I'm tired of all the raised questioning eyebrows incredulously asking me if he really is forrin.

I find it hard to get my head around the idea that I am worth more, deserve more etc just because I was lucky enough to be born a British citizen.

Was anyone asking you to, or saying that immigration is a universally positive experience?

I've lost track of the point you were trying to make, and I'm trying to give you a fair hearing.

Also - your point about Indians is odd given that British Indians as an ethnic group (regardless of whether born here or in India) are predominantly and increasingly middle class and have the lowest poverty rates of any ethnic group after white British according to the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.

That was my point.

Aga thanks for posting that report. You mentioned the 80% Somalis in social housing, but the report also says that over 90% of social housing is occupied by UK born British citizens. So Somalian immigrants are part of the less than 10% non-British people in social housing. Within that 10% Somalia comes 19th on the list, after Ireland (2nd) Germany (5th) United States (10th) Australia (14th), just to choose a few countries which send white (therefore less scary) immigrants. In terms of sheer numbers, there are 18 other (white and non-white) countries to worry about before you target the Somalians for mention.

Even if 100% of Somalian refugees moved into social housing they would still not outnumber the white (Germans or French or Australians) immigrants in social housing, and altogether the immigrants of all nationalities would still number less than 10% of the overall social housing occupants.

As that report rightly says, feelings about immigration are about perception, not facts. I think Somalians are perceived as more scary and threatening than white immigrants and that's probably why Aga threw in the 80% figure and left out the other contextual data in the report

This country thrived for centuries without mass immigration

I nearly spat out my coffee then.

Wasn't immigration or immigrants blamed for starting the great fire of London?

Just wading in with some information on Somalis and their social housing...

The vast majority of Somalis with permission to be in the UK will have come as asylum seekers, so many now will be Refugees. Their country completely imploded in the 90s and has been in full scale Civil War since then. Somali asylum claims are usually very similar and often consist of militia coming to a house, gang raping a woman and her female children while other family members are forced to watch at gunpoint. Usually a couple of people in the family will be killed there and then. Then the man is dragged away and forced in to slavery for years, leaving the women and children living unprotected against further attacks until the opportunity arises for someone to escape and flee.

So they come with nothing. Not 2 pennies to run together, not a word of English usually, no education, terrified, completely culture shocked as well.

To my mind, social housing is the least we can do for Refugees as fellow human beings. People who have been recognised as Refugees should not be seen as a problem (they are but they shouldn't be). They have suffered unimaginable things. They start life here with absolutely nothing. They need help and support, not to be bashed.

On the whole, refugees are extremely grateful to the UK for the safety they now have and want to give something back but it takes time to learn English well enough to be able to work, especially when you have never had an education. It takes time to pull yourself up from absolute rock bottom particularly when you no doubt have PTSD etc as well.

I don't think it is benefiting most of the indigenous population unless you run a business.

The EU benefits those indigenous British people who choose to leave the UK to widen their horizons, follow their heart, climb the career ladder or go in search of a better life in other EU countries.

You may be happy to not have the opportunities the EU's freedom of travel and working gives us but many many British people are very grateful for the EU and the lives they have been enabled to build because of the EU.

Take away the freedom of movement and working and you will send all the EU immigrants home but you would get back just as many people as the British people living aboard would have no right to be there anymore. What would happen is you'd get a large amount of British people who don't want to be living in tge UK, who would in many cases be reliant on benefits and social housing because they had been deplaced, at least the EU immigrats in the UK actually want to be there, they are very welcome to my place.

My experience of Somalian people is that they are incredibly generous, respectful and hardworking.

I studied Swedish in state funded language courses, there was a mix of nationalities, a few of my classmates were Somalian, their reasons for moving to Sweden were heartbreaking and they had very little but the little they had they wanted to share, any food or snacks wereshared around the table, they would insist. The teachers, especially the female teachers were always offered help and the Somali men would jump up from their seat to hold the door open for a woman.

I find it sad that their need for social housing is seen as an inconvenience to brits, I'm sure most Somalians would prefer to be living in a safe Somalia.

seriously i can't actually believe you started this thread you're going to get definitions and everything! do you mean legal or illegal? questions prejudice etc and as you can tell im place marking for nap time see you xx

Deaky - most people opining about immigration and asking for harsher rules don't know what the actual rules are, and what constitutes legal immigration.

I wish people would stop using the term "illegal immigrant" altogether, when there are less dehumanising terms describing the situation of people who are here without a valid visum (and thus without any recourse to public funds or right to lawful employment to support themselves)

www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-09/25/media-dehumanising-immigrants

The Vikings started it. We need to be much more firm about immigration from Scandinavian countries, what with all their raping and pillaging and their orange hair and strange headgear.

Don't forget the Normans too..and the Romans..even the Celts came from elsewhere. Although England was once connected by Doggerland I suppose...

My DH was amazed by how Indian some of the place names on the Isle of Lewis sounded ...

To reiterate, being married to a UK citizen does not afford you the right to reside the UK, and especially doesn't allow the non-Brit to claim any benefits. All of this everyone married their cousin and brings them here nonsense is ridiculous.

And the statistics were never about percentage by nationality but overall. You added those into the mix to try and make a non-point. Also, shockingly, it is possible to have dual nationality. Say Somalian and British for example.

Most of the UK's accomplishments have been at the detriment to other nations.

What about defeating Hitler? Invention of forceps, anaesthesia, small pox vaccine, penicillin, steam engine, the industrial revolution? To name but a few. I am . The OP clearly has no grasp whatsoever of British history.

I think it depends on the experience they have had. I had a house 2 doors from me with 12 Poles in. Was a nightmare, up till 3am drinking, shouting in the street etc. All the neighbours in the street complained to the letting agent including the Hungarians and Latvians who were even more annoyed than any of us. The would scream abuse at us in Polish and be intimidating. Obviously i know not all Poles are like this and the LL should have known there were 12 there instead of 4.

Further to Peachy's point that marriage doesn't automatically give you citizenship (or even a visa) unless your British citizen spouse earns at least £18,600 (regardless of your own income, that doesn't count for that purpose), families are torn apart by these rules.

britcits.blogspot.co.uk/

Corey your post puts the finger right on the spot. The biggest issue around immigration is about lack of enforcement of the existing laws that we have. That particular group of people who happened to be from Poland should have been cracked down on at once by the police and by their landlord.
The undercutting of wages also needs to be tackled - we need to get much, much tougher on companies which fail to pay at least NMW. At the moment, measures taken against these people are pathetic and don't hit them where it hurts, so they will just keep on doing it.

The above does mean we need to stop cutting police numbers though.

kawliga thank you for that neat dissection of AgaPanthers' DWP-esque use of statistics.

Pointy - From talking to one of the neighbours who was friends with the LL when they lived in the house it turn out the house was rented by the company employing the Poles. The agreement was to let the house to 4. I have no idea if he company filled the house with 12 or if theh were friends of the 4 and decided to move in. The former i think as a van used to pick them all up early morning. When they then moved in 2 woman on top of the 12 men jn a 3 bed terrace thats when everyone decided enough was enough. The LL evicted them

I feel for the LL then, Corey. And the role of the company should certainly have been looked into - this is where enforcement comes in, and where we need to stop protecting unscrupulous (British) employers. It sounds an awful situation to be in.

If Somalia was a French colony why aren't the Somalians in France?

Jassy I am not like how you are perceiving me to be. I'm not disputing that many have made a net contribution but there are just too many people here.

Why should the Romanian Roma be allocated social housing above the indigenous population who may have been waiting for a long time or even other immigrants who need housing who may have been working and contributing.

Also the spouting by the government 'we must build more affordable housing' by the government and on greenfield.

For who would be my question and why?

Also the sub letting of council properties and the unscrupulous landlords who are concreting in their back gardens (without planning permission) and housing desperate people but so wonderful.

Millie I said most, not all, of Britains 'accomplishments' and you seem to be skimming over an awful lot of history that isn't convenient to your point. So perhaps it is in fact you who needs to revisit your history textbooks?

Alemci, why should "indigenous" people get priority for anything? Just because they happened to be born on a certain stretch of land? This reeks of entitlement. My parents, grandparents and so on have all been higher rate tax payers for yonks but I don't think the UK owes me anything and I've been extremely grateful that I can claim JSA, have treatment on the NHS etc if I need to.
Britain is predominantly unbuilt upon, there is not enough housing so more needs to be built. Why does it matter who is going to live in those houses- as long as everyone has one!

Widow unfortunately we are one of those families. Thanks to the EU, DH and I can be together everywhere in Europe except the country for which I hold a passport!

"Why should the Romanian Roma be allocated social housing above the indigenous population who may have been waiting for a long time or even other immigrants who need housing who may have been working and contributing."

Erm, there is no such thing as an indigenous Brit. You do realise that?

people who have lived here for years', have lived in the borough, paid council tax, left school at 14 because their parents needed them to and have worked for 50 years' . May have fought in ww1 or 2, put up with bombing and rationing., bad working conditions. why aren't their descendents given priority if they need housing.

does any other country give what we give to newcomers.