Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why people hate immigration/immigrants so much?

209 replies

PeachyParisian · 02/07/2014 19:34

I don't mean to the UK specifically, but within Europe, worldwide..

Does it boil down to a sense of entitlement? i.e. I was born here so i deserve to reap the benefits of my ancestors hard work.
Also I suppose economic migration is completely different to fleeing to claim asylum although I see no differentiation made in the UK media.
Its always about "benefits tourism"/"generous benefits given to asylum seekers".
I'm an expat, DH is non-EU and we are planning on moving to the UK this year and I'm tired of all the raised questioning eyebrows incredulously asking me if he really is forrin.

I find it hard to get my head around the idea that I am worth more, deserve more etc just because I was lucky enough to be born a British citizen.

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 02/07/2014 21:47

The trouble is many people are personally horrible to and about immigrants, the people, not immigration the policy. It's lovely that everyone on this thread isn't but it's not the full picture.

Mind you, I'm still boggling a bit at the apparent parallel between a perceived brain drain from Poland and the horrific legacy of British colonialism everywhere from Ireland to the Far East.

JassyRadlett · 02/07/2014 21:48

I'm not an EU citizen. Am I a mass immigrant? I've put on a bit of weight since I've lived here.

MehsMum · 02/07/2014 21:54

The issue that concerns me is the small size of Britain. England (which is where most immigrants settle) is very heavily populated, especially - as alemci pointed out - the SE. If you don't mind living in an endless town, that's fine, but if you like space and countryside and woodland, any form of population increase is going to be problematic, whether it's a by natural increase (all those kids including the ones I had and people living for longer) or by immigration.

The immigrants I know are industrious, speak good English: no way do I hate them. But I feel pretty dismal when I look at a large local field over which is hanging a planning application for yet more houses. More concrete, less wildlife and less locally produced food.

DogCalledRudis · 02/07/2014 21:54

I'm an EU immigrant, i am entitled to (almost) everything, and i don't give a rat's arse if anyone hates me. Maybe i don't like you either. So suck it up and get over it. I am here to stay.

siamesekittensatplay · 02/07/2014 21:57

I certainly don't hate immigrants.

I certainly don't hate immigration.

I am concerned by the level of immigration into this country at the moment, and concerned about the impact it is having on everybody - including immigrants.

Being concerned about the above does not make me racist.

TucsonGirl · 02/07/2014 22:00

I think rules have to be changed so that immigrants cannot claim benefits or be allowed to vote. They should be viewed as welcome guests, not permanent residents. This country thrived for centuries without mass immigration, everyone knows that Labours policy of mass immigration was an unfettered disaster and they will pay for it at the polls next year. They may win, but it will be very narrow and they will be stuck with a lame duck parliamentary term where they have a very slim majority and even a few MPs not following the whip will be able to derail any policy.

manicinsomniac · 02/07/2014 22:00

I think it's because the media and propaganda tells them to.

ikeaismylocal · 02/07/2014 22:02

But I feel pretty dismal when I look at a large local field over which is hanging a planning application for yet more houses.

I think a big part of the problem is the British obsession with living in houses, if family friendly apartments were built with wonderful communal gardens instead of rows and rows of little houses with tiny gardens there would be more open space.

Trazzletoes · 02/07/2014 22:03

mijas people don't "go home" with no serious income. I have lost count of the number of people I see who have been here illegally for many years, living under the radar. Ineligible for any benefits, sofa surfing/ homeless. Until they either become eligible to stay, Or alternatively we get a call from the Police because a body has been found with one of our business cards.

writtenguarantee · 02/07/2014 22:04

I don't think most people "hate" migrants; that is rather a silly and simplistic assumption. Rather there is a real fear that there has been immigration to the UK on an unprecedented scale and that the infrastructure cannot cope and migrants cannot assimilate. At my local primary, 75% of kids speak English as a 2nd language. The teacher's main focus is trying to teach basic English language skills and the remaining 25% are being held back. Urdu is the main playground language and non migrant children feel excluded.

that's a problem. I am an immigrant and wouldn't want that, but it's not insurmountable. And that problem is hardly ubiquitous, even in London.

At my child's school you get a real rainbow of kids. My daughter knows people of all backgrounds and I think it is really good for her. Yes, she has possibly been left behind because teachers have to cope with kids who can't speak English. Oh well, she's six, and we pick up more advanced things at home. On the plus side, she knows how to say words in languages like Turkish, which she wouldn't know at an all English school. It's actually given her a little bit of shame that I think many people here should feel given how so many native Brits only speak one language. She sees her friends speaking other languages and wants to learn another one herself. her school definitely gives her a global perspective.

the fact that infrastructure can't cope is a failure of our govt. we can and should be investing in schools etc.

I also think your comment about entitlement due to "ancestors" is misplaced. The welfare state was only founded in '40s and '50s. You overlook the contribution that many people have made (and continue to make) through their UK taxes all their working life. An old aged pensioner who has paid UK taxes for over 50 years might well wonder why he is waiting longer for his hip replacement operation because people who have never paid a penny of UK tax are in front of him.

why is the comment misplaced? Why does anyone think they have rights to "their ancestors" work? My parents paid a bunch money into a system that I have now left (so I don't directly benefit), and everyone else (including new immigrants) will benefit. I don't see why that old pensioner cares if an immigrant who hasn't paid into the system or a non tax paying brit is in front of the queue. That's the nature of a socialized system. Also, your comment implicitly assumes that immigrants are a net burden on the system, and I doubt that's the case. Furthermore, when that pensioner goes and gets his pension cheque he should thank his lucky stars that he lives in a country where young immigrants pay taxes and support his pension (like me. I have been paying buckets of tax since the day I set foot here), unlike places like Japan where it's anyone's guess how they will be paying for pensions in 15 years.

ikeaismylocal · 02/07/2014 22:04

I think rules have to be changed so that immigrants cannot claim benefits would you suggest the UK paid benefits to British people living abroad?

writtenguarantee · 02/07/2014 22:12

I think rules have to be changed so that immigrants cannot claim benefits or be allowed to vote.

Should immigrants and brits be subject to the same rules? I.e. you only get 1 years benefits per years work? Why is a Brit on benefits who has never contributed any more deserving? are immigrants more likely to collect benefits?

immigrants can't vote in national elections unless they are commonwealth citizens with an IDL. europeans can't vote in national elections.

JassyRadlett · 02/07/2014 22:13

Tucson, so at any point would these duplicating grateful guests be eligible for permanent residence or citizenship? What happens if they marry a local?

A recent UCL study showed:

Those from the European Economic Area (EEA - the EU plus Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein) had made a particularly positive contribution in the decade up to 2011, the authors noted, contributing 34% more in taxes than they received in benefits and services.

Those from outside the EU made a much smaller net contribution, but it was still a net contribution for the same time period,

'Benefits tourism' hysteria when it comes to post-2004 EU immigration is not based on fact. The country's balance of benefits to tax would be worse without short-term immigration.

Longer term immigrants, particularly from outside the EU, tended to cost more than they paid in tax between 1995 and 2011 in total - so that's a valid issue to consider (but not in isolation outwith effects on GDP, corporation tax etc).

But the hysterical rhetoric around European benefits tourism is either misinformed or cynically opportunistic.

JassyRadlett · 02/07/2014 22:16

The 'work of our ancestors' comment is just nonsensical. My ancestors were from Britain, so I assume it's ok that I benefit from that by living here? And large numbers of British people are now benefiting from my more recent ancestors' toil in my home country.

littledrummergirl · 02/07/2014 22:16

littledrummergirlAre you basing your belief that a 'native' is more deserving on the fact that nobody"should"have to move abroad to find work or because people born here should get first dibs on all the good stuff?

Peachy, where do I state my beliefs?

The more people that want to work for an employer, the less that employer has to pay.

By native I meant those who were born in the country and have previous generations in that country, generations who contributed to building the health, welfare, principles and infrastructure that makes the country the immigrants country of choice.

By goodstuff I assume you mean the above.

alemci · 02/07/2014 22:17

I like living in my house and enjoy my privacy, why would I want to live in an apartment with a communal garden? do we have to become like Japan.

our local primary is expanding building over a playing field, more cars and chaos from September.

why do we have to have so many people here. who is it helping?

WidowWadman · 02/07/2014 22:19
  1. Skin colour is no indicator of immigration status.
  2. Religion is no indicator of immigration status.
  3. Stop using "immigrant" and "asylum seeker" interchangeably.
  4. Stop using "illegal immigrant" instead of the more accurate and less dehumanising "undocumented migrant".
  5. What the f is actually wrong with being an "economic migrant", that is used as a derogatory term? - surely pro actively going where there are jobs and trying to make a life is a good thing. Does it make a big difference if someone was born in a different country or just a different county? After all you have the same freedom to move about and pursue your luck?
  6. Nobody leaves their home and loved ones behind to just live on the dole.
  7. Immigration status is no indicator of amount of taxes paid to HMRC (other than the fact that on average immigrants are more likely to be in employment and paying tax than non-immigrants
  8. Immigrants do not get handed the keys to a council house and a wheelbarrow full of cash on arrival. They don't get handed passports either, despite what the tabloid press claims.
alemci · 02/07/2014 22:20

also I think if new labour had been more sensible and not allowed so much immigration from 1997 I don't think there would be so many issues

WidowWadman · 02/07/2014 22:22

Little drummer girl on nativeness,can you elaborate? I'm a naturalised British citizen who came here as an adult, husband is born British,but his paternal grandfather was an immigrant. In your eyes, are our children "native" or immigrants?

WidowWadman · 02/07/2014 22:23

Little drummer girl on nativeness,can you elaborate? I'm a naturalised British citizen who came here as an adult, husband is born British,but his paternal grandfather was an immigrant. In your eyes, are our children "native" or immigrants?

PeachyParisian · 02/07/2014 22:25

Tucson Is that how you would like to be treated in another country? You do know that Brits can claim benefits elsewhere in the EU don't you?

Should immigrants and brits be subject to the same rules? I.e. you only get 1 years benefits per years work? Why is a Brit on benefits who has never contributed any more deserving? are immigrants more likely to collect benefits?

^^This!

As an EU, but non French citizen I can vote only in municipal and European elections. The fact that I didn't receive my voting card in time for either may or not be a coincidence Hmm

Jassy If they married a local, that local would have to be earning a minimum of nearly 19k pa in order for them to be eligible to stay on a spouse visa. A visa that costs nearly a grand to apply for Presently, if they married a non-Brit but EU citizen, they would have no financial criteria to meet. fair, isn't it?

OP posts:
ikeaismylocal · 02/07/2014 22:29

I like living in my house and enjoy my privacy, why would I want to live in an apartment with a communal garden? do we have to become like Japan. a communal garden gives open green spaces to people, you can't have it both ways if you live in a densely populated area. If you ( and lots of other people) want your own house and garden then great, but don't moan about the lack of green spaces left due to other people also wanting their own home and garden.

why do we have to have so many people here. who is it helping? it's helping the immigrants and the people who choose to emigrate, I don't know why people don't understand that the numbers are pretty equal when youccompare immigration and emigration between the UK and other EU countries.

Tallandgracefulmum · 02/07/2014 22:30

Many of those who hate immigrants really do not knoe that much of the wealth of the West, UK specifically was due to explolation of many other countries, just like Liabra said.

My opinion is the media does not help by printing crap that will sell their papers and not a refection of the truth.
Many people hate immigrants because they think they "come er and take all our jobs" or claim benefits. But in reality many Europeans and those from outside Europe come here to work in either professional jobs and were headhunted to come an manage a UK team or start their own businesses and thrive or come and work the low paid jobs the brits will never do, too beneath them, yet many do not have qualifications to do anything more than apple picking.

They also hate the fact they think as a English person they ahve the right to be better off than immigrants, and when immigrants buy houses, send their kids to private school or their child attain better GCSE results ot go to better universities or become lawyers, doctors, scientists as they do they get jealous and start spouting all the crap about immigrants. Yes there are some crooks, but there are plenty crooks out of the nationals.

I am a lawyer, before I went into the corporate law I practised in mixed civil and crime. The media like to portray that if a wife get killed its asians, by only printing those stories headline knews so it looks like asians kill family members, or if a murder took place amongst youth only the black on black crime as they call it is highlighted, but what is it when a white person kills white on white crime etc. Crimilising Jamacians as drug dealing or murders, Nigerians as 419 fraudsters, Pakistanis as sex traffikers, Bulgarians as identity fradusters ( sorry if I have offended anyone who are of these origins), but in reality the ethnic miniorties, the home grown oever the past 60 years or recent immigrants still all togther make up less than than 4% of the population and MOST crime in the UK is commited by UK (white) nationals, due to there being more of them.

Majority of immigrants are hard working people. As a former working class girl who is white British I grew up in an area of London that had many families from Nigeria and India ( hardly any polish Bulgarians or most Eastern Europeans around my way when I was growing up) and they are the most hard working people I know. Clever, ambitious, my mum upped her game when she met many of them.
The thing is many UK nationals think that we should limit immigration, but in my opinion we should look at the home grown kids of today who many are so damn lazy.

The diffeerence with immigrants, lets talk about the ones who come here uneducated, call upon them in 5 years down the line, they would have improved their situaiton, wither thorugh getting a better job or going back to school. They prosper and Their children outperform and outclass white children not just working class, even middle class as standard. That impresses me not make me hate them.

I say to my kids, speak English better, as it is YOUR mother tongue, don't be left behind.
Go into mau UK or internaitonal companies HQ in the UK you will UK people working in admin, security or non qualificaitons jobs, and see where the managers are from, the doctors, nurses, teachers etc, immigrant background.

Finally, I think why do we call people who come here in search of a better life an immigrant anyway. Most Brits who do that are called EXPATS, why are they not immigrants too?

It stinks of ignorance and jealously to me, as those who hate immigrants love retireing in Africa, USA or parts of Europe lourding it over the locals living like kings due to their exchange rate, poping back home to collect their pension and top up on the NHS, do they get treated bad in those countries or welcomed with open arms.

One poster mentioned teachers trying to teach EAL. Ok that might be true, but what about 80% of areas in UK where immigrants hae not reached and the children, native still have no grasp of their own language, ask many kids what is a noun or pronoun and they will not know, as immigrant children and I can bet that they would know or have better crack and come closer to the correct answer.

Tallandgracefulmum · 02/07/2014 22:33

So sorry about spelling, type so fast on this damn keyboard!

WidowWadman · 02/07/2014 22:34

Tucscongirl why should people in your view only be allowed as transient guests and not welcome as permanent residents. How long should people in your view be allowed to stay in the place they chose to make their home?
I'm asking as someone who could not live anywhere in the world with my family without at least one of us being an immigrant.