to wonder if this person should be invited to the wedding?

[TidyDancer]

Yes, it's that time of year, and yes it's me with another wedding thread!

A colleague who is currently on ML (let's call her Becky) is getting married in the autumn and has sent out invitations in the last month. The majority of us from work have been invited only to the evening do which is absolutely fine, with a couple going to the whole wedding day (these are people she is especially close to, so totally understandable).

The problem is this: I work in a reasonably small team within a much larger department. There are 8 of us (9 including Becky) within a department of approx 40. 3 of the small team have not been invited. One has joined us since Becky went on ML, so understandably not invited. Another does not get on with Becky, the feeling is very much mutual so he wouldn't go anyway. The third (we'll call her Laura) is a very long serving member of staff who is very notably absent from the invitations. While the other two could be understood (colleague two wouldn't care that he wasn't invited), Laura will be very upset and hurt.

The reason Becky hasn't invited her is that Laura can be very outspoken, at times rude and always has an opinion about everything. I personally doubt she would make any kind of comment about the wedding itself, but she can be difficult. She thinks she is very liked and respected by Becky though, and her exclusion would come as a huge shock.

I realise there is nothing I can personally do to change this situation. On the one hand I agree that Becky can invite who she wants to her wedding. But on the other I don't think she realises just how uncomfortable a situation this is to be in. It will cause tensions in the team and the rift will perhaps not be repairable. If the invites are hidden from Laura, she will be upset we didn't tell her. If we tell her, she will be upset she isn't invited. Some colleagues are of the opinion that Becky can invite who she wants, others think she is being very rude and bridezilla-ish and the other opinion is that she just being plain spiteful for the sake of it. Becky, while a lot of fun, can be quite cutting at times. She is also feeling very left out of the team while she's on ML as we do socialise together, but afaik she has been invited to things, obviously with newborn twins she hasn't been able to attend. There are thoughts that she is excluding Laura because she feels excluded herself.

So what is reasonable/unreasonable here? Should Becky be able to invite who she wants, or should she be fair to the team?

Some potentially relevant info:

1. Laura is unaware she is the only one not invited.
2. This is not about numbers. We all have plus one invitations and she has invited a manager from another team as well as a couple of people from other departments (neither of which she is close to).
3. Becky is senior to Laura.
4. Becky's manager feels it is very unfair, but has refused to approach her with this (I guess rightly as it isn't really a work issue and Becky is on ML until Christmas).
5. Some team members are feeling uncomfortable enough to be thinking of withdrawing their acceptance and not going to the wedding.
6. The wedding is a significant distance from where we work (we are in Bedfordshire, wedding is in Suffolk) so we would all travel together - meaning at some point presumably, Laura would hear of the arrangements.

Opinions? And any advice!

I think it's fine for Becky not to invite Laura.

I don't think you need to hide your invites or be worried about Laura's reactions.

It's not up to you to try to second guess people's responses or behaviour here. If Becky doesn't want her there then fine.

I don't agree that someone can invite who they want and it is fine. It's horrid to exclude certain people just because you don't like them. It's very very wrong

Couldn't disagree more - some people don't like me, so they won't invite me to any events they are organising, especially happy events like weddings. I don't expect an invite, and give not a flying shit. And the same is true the other way round. Nothing wrong about it.

I think most people would be hurt if the majority of a team were invited to a wedding or party and they were one of a tiny handful excluded.
And in this case, from what the OP said, Laura doesn't even realise that Becky doesn't like her, so will be pretty upset to realise she's been excluded.
It's different if you're only inviting a handful of close friends from work, but if you're inviting most people it's rude and childish to leave a couple out.
To be honest, anywhere I've worked,an evening wedding invite was just issued generally to the whole office/dept/team. There was no selecting certain individuals.

Sorry, meant to add that if it was someone you knew quite well and got on with you would make an effort to go. If it was someone you had very little dealings with or did not have a good working relationship with, you used your common sense and realised that it would not be appropriate for you to attend.

It's horrid to exclude certain people just because you don't like them.

Really? Isn't it just as horrid to be rude to your colleagues to the extent that they don't want to socialise with you? Not everyone has to like everyone - adults are allowed to get on with some people more than others and I'm shocked that anyone would think otherwise.

If you have limited numbers, and have to choose between someone you like and someone you don't, you would honestly invite someone you didn't like to your wedding to avoid being 'horrid'? What is an acceptable reason to exclude someone if not liking them doesn't cut it?!

This is her wedding, not her 8th birthday party!
Why on EARTH should she invite a rude and difficult person just to smooth things over in the office

There are so many, too many 'what ifs' and unknowns here for anyone to know the real reasons behind it.

Maybe one of Laura's opinionated outbursts was about her being homophobic, and Becky has a gay cousin. Maybe Laura has said something in the past that really upset Becky, and her husband-to-be vetoed inviting someone who had upset her in the past.

Who knows. But no where in her employment contract does it say she has to use her personal social occasions to keep staff happy, so she can invite whoever she wants. If Laura gets the hump, tell her to take it up with Becky.

The OPhas said the numbers aren't limited. The bride can indeed invite who she likes but then when it comes to her working relationship with Laura, and the rest of the team who are taking a dim view of this, she's going to have to take that bad feeling and suck it up.

To make a point of excluding someone like this is petty and will backfire.

If that response was to me, Tigerbike, I wasn't talking about the wedding in the OP, I was responding to Happy's post that not inviting someone because you don't like them is 'horrid'. I don't understand the reasoning and cannot fathom how that would work in practice.

As it happens, I disagree that it's 'petty' not to invite someone you don't like to your wedding. I'm sure the bride has considered the working relationship with her colleagues and is probably quite happy to suck it up. In my opinion, someone who cannot remain professional because they weren't invited to a colleague's private party is more in need of sucking it up than someone who simply wants to be surrounded by people that they actually like for their own wedding.

Tiger Should she also invite the other two people that are overtly rude to her and don't get on?

The issue here is Laura. She sounds like one of those people who is rude and offensive, and then when she is called on it, will say something like 'Oh I just speak my mind' or 'I'm not going to apologise for being honest'

She is expecting an invitation because she hasn't grasped that her actions have consequences, and those consequences are that people don't like you and want you at their social events if you are a rude and difficult person.

So the correct response to Laura when she kicks off and sulks about not being invited is 'well you have been rude to her quite a lot, so that is probably why you haven't been invited.'

Then, she might address her behaviour and stop being rude to people.

But the general feeling in the workplace seems to be that Laura should have been invited; so she can't be that dislikeable or obnoxious.
I think it's sad if someone is using their wedding to score petty vindictive points against some annoying but ultimately harmless colleague who is obviously expecting to be included as part of the team.
Yes, it's Becky's business, but it's still childish behaviour.

II don't agree that someone can invite who they want and it is fine. It's horrid to exclude certain people just because you don't like them. It's very very wrong

What? It's wrong not to invite someone you don't like to your wedding? Again, what?

I think it would be two faced and disingenuous to invite people you don't like to such a special event or any personal event. This is not a work event, it's her wedding.

But the general feeling in the workplace seems to be that Laura should have been invited; so she can't be that dislikeable or obnoxious.

That doesn't follow - just because other people like her doesn't mean that the bride does, or should have to pretend she does on her wedding day. There are plenty of people that I don't like who have friends who obviouly do, and I'm sure there are people who don't like me despite the fact I have plenty of friends who do. People like different people, and the fact that some of the adults in this workplace cannot cope with this doesn't mean that Becky is childish, vindictive or point-scoring. She is getting married, not hosting a diplomatic reception.

Vintage I think the general feeling in the workplace is that Laura should be invited, because Laura is expecting an invitation and will be shocked when she doesn't get one.
" She thinks she is very liked and respected by Becky though, and her exclusion would come as a huge shock."

Which says to me that she has zero concept of the consequences of her actions. And her wider team are enabling it, because rather than calling her on it and making her reaslise that being rude to Becky = No wedding invitation, they are pass-agging Becky to brush it under the carpet and invite Laura to keep the peace

This is borderline workplace bullying, isn't it? Laura (senior to Becky) has been rude to her in the past to the extent that she doesn't want her at her wedding day, and also has enough of the rest of the team in fear of being seen taking sides that they are now contemplating not going themselves, presumably to show they are Team Laura when the inevitable fall out comes after Becky returns from ML

The point I was making was that she doesn't seem to be some totally obnoxious person who needs to be taught a lesson, which was kind of implied in an earlier post.

I think, as an adult, there's a balance between not feeling forced to invite people you really dislike or who have been awful to you to occasions, and not hurting people's feelings unnecessarily.

In this situation, where it's just the evening part of the wedding and she would be coming as part of a large group of colleagues, I would just feel it's not worth upsetting her and looking petty and would include her in a general work invite. In other situations, I might feel it wouldn't be appropriate to include her in something.

This happened where I worked, the wedding was not the problem it was afterwards the small team dynamics changed. Prior we would have night out and work lunches but this stopped not because anything was said, it just felt awkward and the bride never spoke about her wedding because the other colleague was there. I am sure she would of invited her if she new the after effects.

It is a personal event, not a work one. Becky has no obligation to consider work matters when deciding who to invite; and her workplace (and the individual staff there) has no right to a say in the guest list - regardless of whether the people included or excluded are her colleagues, her cousins, or random people picked from the phone book.

It is both ill mannered and pointless to speculate on Becky's reason's for choosing not to invite Laura, or on Laura's reaction to not being invited.

Go, or don't go, on your own account, not as part of some office 'gang'. And pay Becky and Laura the compliment of assuming that they are both functioning adults who - apparently unlike the rest of their department - are professional enough to keep their work and private lives separate.

A) This sounds like it belongs in Jackie.
B) 'This is her wedding, not her 8th birthday party'
In adult life there is no 'you can't leave out 3 children from a class' rule. If you act like an arse people aren't going to invite you to things.

"It is both ill mannered and pointless to speculate on Becky's reason's for choosing not to invite Laura, or on Laura's reaction to not being invited."

Bit OTT.

sparechange Borderline workplace bullying?? Becky is senior to Laura, and the OP confirms that Laura has never said anything rude to Becky. Becky sounds like the rude arse to me.

"The reason Becky hasn't invited her is that Laura can be very outspoken, at times rude and always has an opinion about everything. I personally doubt she would make any kind of comment about the wedding itself, but she can be difficult. She thinks she is very liked and respected by Becky though, and her exclusion would come as a huge shock."

Based on that I very much doubt that I would have invited her either.

Tidy, why does Lara think that she is "very liked and respected by Becky"?

"In adult life there is no 'you can't leave out 3 children from a class' rule. "

No, but a lot of adults just wouldn't exclude someone in a way that's hurtful. It's not about rules and rights. It's often about what is polite and considerate behaviour and personally I just think Becky, while perfectly within her rights, is behaving like a bit of a knob over this.

I remember a few years being invited to Leaving Work drinks by a colleague I really didn't know that well. She didn't invite two people she knew much better but whom she didn't particularly like (no row or anything. Just didn't gel that well). The general opinion was that she was being bloody childish.

Tidy do you make a habit of getting involved and anguished about stuff that is really nothing to do with you?

Why don't you step away and leave the B&G deal with it?

What MN's thinks can't have any bearing can it? Or are you going to show the B&G this thread

Blimey, what a lot of fuss and bother. The bride has every right to invite who she wants to her wedding, and isn't obliged to invite anyone she doesn't want. That's it.

Vintage this isn't a works leaving party. This is Beckys wedding! Why would she want someone there she doesn't like? If Laura or anyone else is expecting an invite they really are acting a bit 'entitled'.

Why OTT, VintageJazz? It's pointless to speculate because (a) they have no way of knowing whether their guesses are right and (b) they can't do anything about it if they are because (c) it's none of their business. And it's ill mannered to gossip or make assumptions about people.