Law firm "don't talk about your kids"

[Handsfullandlovingit]

In a meeting, talking about getting rid of old (non confidential) papers I suggested it would make good drawing paper for kids.

My boss came in after and said "may I give you some advice? You shouldn't talk about your kids in meetings, you want to be seen as a lawyer not a mother." I said "god how depressing but thank you" and buried myself in a document trying not to cry.

I feel rather privileged to live in an era when I can do both without discrimination or judgement. Or having to deny a whole part of my life just to fit in. I want to be a mum and a lawyer and not pretend my kids don't exist.

Am I being unreasonably idealistic? Today I heard others discussing Wimbledon centre court tickets, shows in the West End, stuff I used to do before kids. I'm really cross, but is this just the real world?

I think you are intent on making this issue,given you'll jolly well mention the children and your sacrifice
Your choices are personal,and if you consider them sacrifices thats also personal
Are you happy with the choices?why do you consider it sacrifice as opposed to altering working hours

In general its not usual to get approbation or recognition for parental choices,inc dropping working hours. Mentioning your sacrifice in work,what are you hoping this will achieve?

I don't particularly want to listen to talk about families and children at work whether it's men or women because it's on the whole not really that interesting on an extended basis. Especially if cl that's all you've got to talk about whether you're a man or a woman.

Of late non work chats in my department have been about the World Cup, my assistant's trip to India, mine to Orkney, the referendum comes up a lot, the European elections and the importance of voting were discussed, (politics oddly is actually a pretty safe subject) cats, dogs and horses probably feature more often than children. Some of us have children, some don't.

OP said "Today I heard others discussing Wimbledon centre court tickets, shows in the West End, stuff I used to do before kids"

Why does having children prevent one still taking an interest in these things (I'm puzzled tbh why having children prevents you doing this stuff, maybe not as often but completely?)

None of my colleagues have centre court tickets, doesn't stop any of us talking about what's happening there.

I think it was good advise to follow.

I don't talk about my dc in the workplace. Or my dh or other family members. I keep work and private life separate. If I have a colleague who becomes a friend then I naturally will start to share more, but this has only happened a handful of times over my career.

I always wonder privately at what the agenda is of a person (male and female) who does discuss their family lives at length in the workplace.

I sought some real life advice from my friend. She had training at Norton Rose for women/mothers who are en route to partnership. The advice was if you are female, don't 1. Talk about your kids 2. Have pictures of your kids up 3. Bake, anything ever. But it's ok for the male lawyers to do that.

I think times are a-changing now - thank god. There's now a big gender diversity push - though only because clients are starting to ask where all the women and flexible workers are. It used to be the case that the answer to "how can we make more women partners?" was "change the women" - i.e. tell them they have to be just like men (then call the hard nosed bitches for it).

Still, the upper echelons are having a hard time with the shift in thinking.

Why does having children prevent one still taking an interest in these things (I'm puzzled tbh why having children prevents you doing this stuff, maybe not as often but completely?)

It doesn't. It just drastically reduces the amount of time you have to even catch up on what happened at all the sporting events/in the movies/in the papers that you didn't have time to attend/see/read yourself. I like to listen to other people talk about these things, but between work, DD and sleep, I've no time to gain the knowledge firsthand. So I talk about work, DD and (occasionally) the few other thinks I might be able to squeeze in.

*things

Frankly, everybody may recycle paper as they wish but the sole idea of someone taking paper cointaining highly confidential information about my case, or anyone else, for the children to draw on it would make me wary about the practice.

I would say that your comment was not wrong but said in the wrong context, I think that it would equate to saying "I'm taking the rest of the meeting's food home" at the end of the meeting. Just take it, but do it discretely.

I think that there is still quite a lot of discrimination at work, so I can see why your boss told you so. She might have learned the lesson the hardway.

Well, nobody would take confidential information for kids to draw on, but there is plenty of paper generally produced that isn't confidential. All my confidential stuff ends up in the file or the shredder, there is still plenty for the recycling box/artwork.

I would happily engage a mum lawyer ...In the hope that they are more human .
Plus you suggested that the paper would make good drawing paper for kids seems like rather a sensible solution to me.

My hunch is that your boss feels that your comment was not well-timed, and possibly part of a larger pattern.

I work in IT and we discuss children but that chat tends to come out at business lunches or dinners. The small talk tends to revolve around sports (World Cup) or forthcoming holidays, and of course the weather. If you're working in a client-based environment, of course you must follow their cues. It's different from working with a tight little team of insiders.

I think the OP's boss is out of touch. As a business journalist, I have often had to interview senior people, and there have been plenty of times when we've ended up talking about our kids - either the interviewee (male or female) will be working at home that day because their kids are sick, or I'll have had to rearrange because I've had to take DD somewhere. Or even during the course of the conversation they'll mention something about their kids being adept at technology or going to university or whatever (in the context of whatever we're talking about). It's considered completely normal and no-one has ever accused me of being unprofessional.

Clients are human too. They have children, and talking about your own children can be a point of contact.

I think she was trying to be helpful, too.

You young ones don't realise how utterly the workplace has changed with regards to women over the last 20 years or so.

I can remember, in the late 80s, being told by a male colleague that what I needed was a really good rogering. It was in front of a group of other male colleagues, all of whom thought it was hysterically funny and thought I was "a po-faced cow" (and said so) because I didn't.

These days, he wouldn't dare to say that and, if he did, the reaction would be very different.
Be aware that he is probably in his 40s now, as are the rest of them. They may have come to understand that demeaning and embarrassing a woman is not acceptable, but all of them thought it was a great joke at the time.