Law firm "don't talk about your kids"

[Handsfullandlovingit]

In a meeting, talking about getting rid of old (non confidential) papers I suggested it would make good drawing paper for kids.

My boss came in after and said "may I give you some advice? You shouldn't talk about your kids in meetings, you want to be seen as a lawyer not a mother." I said "god how depressing but thank you" and buried myself in a document trying not to cry.

I feel rather privileged to live in an era when I can do both without discrimination or judgement. Or having to deny a whole part of my life just to fit in. I want to be a mum and a lawyer and not pretend my kids don't exist.

Am I being unreasonably idealistic? Today I heard others discussing Wimbledon centre court tickets, shows in the West End, stuff I used to do before kids. I'm really cross, but is this just the real world?

You're right, OP. How depressing. I've just returned to work after taking a year's maternity leave. I'm getting in at 7:30 and leaving at 4:30 to pick up my baby from nursery and then logging straight back on when she goes to bed.

Lots of raised eyebrows and not entirely sure it's going to work out. My boss has a slightly older child - she has a nanny and told me she wished her nanny would work longer hours!!

Also my experience is that clients like a bit of family/outside of work chat. They know that most firms can do the work; it's the personalities that matter - especially when you're trying to close a negotiation at 3am.

I think the comment itself risks making you sound distracted. I don't think it was aimed at making you keep your personal life and children a secret, it just possibly comes across as your mind not being on the job. I would have had the same reaction to someone who said the paper would be useful for writing down their golf scores.

I do compost the confidential stuff - after shredding it first. It makes fine fine potting material.

I am a lawyer in the City and IMO unless the OP witters on loads about her kids her boss' comment was an unhelpful overreaction. As for PPs who have made comments along the lines of "I'd think you weren't focussed on the discussion" etc. - it sounds like a total throwaway end of meeting talk about who gets to make a dozen trips to the recycling bin, hardly the nitty gritty of technical/commercial negotiation!

Keeping it professional is one thing, denying you have any life outside work is another, and it is really unhelpful to perpetuate the idea that the latter is necessary for the former.

I feel rather privileged to live in an era when I can do both without discrimination or judgement. Or having to deny a whole part of my life just to fit in

Surely you're not if one tiny comment about recycling necessitates someone saying what they did to you. Sounds to me exactly like they expect you to forgot about any family life - I wonder if the same comments are made to male employees?

Hotdesking has its upside, desertgirl: Time your arrival right and you can choose who you sit with and don't sit with.

I can't resist telling this one: we sit in "pods" of four and at one stage a couple of years ago there was a pod occupied by three pg women and a father-to-be. When the first of the women went off on mat. leave you can imagine the teasing the woman who moved in got about it being a very dangerous place and don't drink the water and don't breathe the air!

I think Chelsy has it right. I'm a partner in a City firm, two kids. I talk about my children a lot to my colleagues, as they (both male and female) do of theirs. The (male) head of my practice group stopped by my desk today to show me photos of his DD's prom night. However, I think my firm is quite progressive, and I've worked in other environments where there was very little family talk. As the only female partner with kids in my team, I make it a point of being open about the challenges of family life, partly because I want female associates to see it as a challenge that can be met.

Most of my clients know I have children, but I wouldn't usually talk about them in a meeting unless the client brought them up. I usually take hints from them, e.g. I will wait for them to mention their family first.

I think it is all about the context - it may be that your comment made you sound like you'd been thinking about your children the whole time. (Of course this is hypothetical, I wasn't there, feel free to ignore if I've got this wrong.) Alternatively, maybe your female boss had it hard as a mother, is old school, and is offering what she thinks is good advice.

Law firms are slow to change, but I still think things have markedly improved in the last ten years. Hang in there!

Btw love the side convo on composting confidential papers! :o

My dad ( a senior civil servant) used to bring reams of paper home for us to draw on. I don't think we were some kind of guilty secret he had to keep under wraps.

Your boss sounds a bit OTT. If you'd sat at the meeting handing around photos of your kids blowing out candles on their birthday cakes, and sitting on Santa's lap in John Lewis then she might have a point.
But daring to mention your children in relation to a discussion regarding getting rid of paper (hardly high powered, top secret stuff)?? Some people need to get a grip.

I'm a lawyer, a part-time one with 3 kids. I talk about my kids at work. We all talk about our kids. Luckily I work for a firm with quite a few women in senior roles. Your boss sounds like she has An Issue. She also sounds like a bit of a knob.

Thank you all. Very interesting experiences.

My boss and I have both taken drastic hours cuts to see more of the kids, lucky to be able to do so really. Although now in the the classic pay only just covers commute and childcare for 2 nearly 3 kids position. So I guess we are in a minority group within the firm, and she probably feels really defensive of our choices. From that would follow a hypersensitivity to appearing focussed on the job at all times, more so than the full timers. On the other hand I feel like I've sacrificed a great deal money and career wise to go part time, and I will jolly well mention the children as they are the reason I've made those sacrifices.

I am a lawyer and I do sometimes talk about my kids. Only with colleagues though, obviously not with clients. I have made the drawing paper suggestion myself before - it was copies of reported cases though, again nothing confidential.

Oh yes vintage my dad used to do that too now I think about it!

I am a lawyer in the City and the advice given is complete rubbish. It's a reflection on your boss rather than of reality.

My children have playdates with clients' children. I swap recommendations re children-friendly weekend activities and holidays with clients. We are all mid/late 30s and we are all men.

Clients sent me gifts when my children were born (some really lovely ones). I have sent clients gifts when their children were born (less lovely ones because I am rubbish at picking things).

That said, I think that the advice was well meant. Just ignore it.

Your colleague isn't wrong,your in work forgoing family time for salary.thats trade off
I don't think its necessary to discuss your kids in a professional setting
Work is financial remuneration for giving up your own time,in work yku slip into role

Total bollocks. I am a partner in a large city firm (top 10) and my kids practically run the place. They have been to the partner's conference (no childcare at the weekend), regularly come in for lunch in the staff restaurant and their artwork festoons my office and the communal coffee area. At Christmas I arranged for my team to all bring their kids in and we had a little party complete with post-it-note art projects and face photocopying.

I'm not suggesting that you talk endlessly about your DC but seriously don't worry about mentioning then.

I dont think he necessarily meant it malevolently or to be unkind
Maybe more a dont get stuck on mummy track warning

I cannot see why on earth it was inappropriate to suggest that the paper might be nice for kids to draw on! I would be equally annoyed if someone said that to me. I've never worked anywhere where people didn't talk about their kids, male and female alike. I would hate to work somewhere that I had to deny I actually HAD a life outside of work. I think that is a really unhealthy attitude to have and it would make me feel very uncomfortable.

OP your boss may feel defensive of her choices but it is up to you how you feel about yours and how and when you mention your kids (within the bounds of professional behaviour, which are a lot wider than many lawyers think).

How old is your boss? I have heard some hair - raising stories from colleagues in their mid to late 40's which to me sound like they are from a different world and I am 37 so hardly a dewy-eyed trainee!

This says loads about your boss - and nothing about you. I work on a trading floor - and no-one there would have a problem with what you said. Clearly your boss has had bad experiences though... I think it's one of those things that has got better even in the last 10 years.

Next time, give him a withering look (with a touch of surprise) and say, "Either you are terrible out of touch, or it makes you uncomfortable, nether are my problem' and leave him to stew.

I do feel sorry for men and women like this, they have missed out on so much.

Er gosh. Don't your law firm ever represent young people/children as clients.?

My dds lawyer is a youngish mum. She couldn't relate to the older men in the firm who were lovely but more dad like.

I think your boss is shortsighted and silly.

Lawyers need to represent their clients of all ages/sexes so should be pretty well rounded themselves. And more importantly appear so.

Dd visibly relaxed as she saw the photos of kids in the office.

I'm a bit puzzled that you have sufficient paper which has nothing confidential on it to be worth sorting out and taking home. I'm a lawyer. Unless you meant something like a batch of headed notepaper with an old address on it, then I don't think any of it's suitable for leaving the office. If it's redundant drafts then they go in the shredder.

I think you'd get a few raised eyebrows in my office if you made that suggestion and it'd be nothing to do with your children.

On another issue I don't understand why people have photos of family in the office. I've never had photos of son or husband nor he of me and our son.