Law firm "don't talk about your kids"

[Handsfullandlovingit]

In a meeting, talking about getting rid of old (non confidential) papers I suggested it would make good drawing paper for kids.

My boss came in after and said "may I give you some advice? You shouldn't talk about your kids in meetings, you want to be seen as a lawyer not a mother." I said "god how depressing but thank you" and buried myself in a document trying not to cry.

I feel rather privileged to live in an era when I can do both without discrimination or judgement. Or having to deny a whole part of my life just to fit in. I want to be a mum and a lawyer and not pretend my kids don't exist.

Am I being unreasonably idealistic? Today I heard others discussing Wimbledon centre court tickets, shows in the West End, stuff I used to do before kids. I'm really cross, but is this just the real world?

I hear you. I'm part time and do ridiculous hours as I feel so grateful for it. It's not like we didn't take a massive paycut!

I'm just an administrator but I try not to talk about my children, not because I think I can't be a mother and do my job but because other people seem to think the two don't overlap.

In the 1970's my Dad worked in construction (so basically, a sexist job in a sexist era) and he used to go round collecting all the old paper for us to draw on. He used to supply my whole primary school class.

...goes glassy eyed reminiscing about drawing on old Bills of Quantities.....

LastTango

Ditto, read the second of my two posts, just below the one you commented on (smile)

You should see people's faces when I grab all available spare paper after meetings sometimes out of the bin to go on my compost heap. It bulks it out you know, once you mix the greens in to heat it up. All the more compost for me next year. And use it to wrap banana peel and apple cores in to take it home safely.

Yes I am a compost nazi. What of it?

Bringing in discussion of irrelevant topics during a meeting is borderline unprofessional. That doesn't mean denying the existence of your kids at all times, just not bringing them up when that's not the point of being there. You might have thought it was a throw-away comment at the time but the boss has probably been there and bought the T-shirt.

blimey, andrewofgg, we are open plan which is bad enough, I would really really hate to hot desk!

Good idea wrt paper for compost.

I am never late because of my children, oh no, I was waiting for washing machine repair man...

Men can get away with it of course, but they're seen as heroes for doing anything for their children.

Bitter, how was it an irrelevant comment if the subject of discussion was the disposal of paper? that sounds an entirely on point comment to me.

This kind of nonsense is why I left my (city law firm) job when I had DC2. My team was full of people who had children and pretended not to, other than occasionally to mention that they hadn't seen them in X days as the nanny had put them to bed before they got home . I'm sure there are law firms out there which don't have this attitude, but mine (or at least my immediate department) wasn't one of them.

It's absolutely ridiculous. I was really keen to make my career and family life work, but I just heard one too many "You on a half day?" (followed by a round of laughter) comments when I left at 6. I don't know what the solution is; it's enormously depressing, and I feel that I'm letting the side down a bit by having taken the SAHM route - it's like the last bastion of acceptable sexism.

It's not my world, but I don't work in law. From what I've heard law is a somewhat bizarre field where it seems to be considered normal to treat people like total shit if they don't breathe work 24/7. You have my sympathies. I guess you have two options: continue like a normal person, and reference your kids as you might any other part of your non-work life, or act like you don't have any personal ties at all. I guess the first would adversely affect your career though :(. hope I'm wrong and it's just your boss being a twat.

funky brilliant! You could compost the confidential stuff too! I never take that for drawing paper, imagine the SRA would take quite a dim view of a breach of confidentiality committed by a 5 year old with a dim lawyer for a mummy.

Point taken Bitter, chat about kids where appropriate.

Lawyer here too. I was told (pre kids) that my voice wasn't authorative or deep enough. Funny that not being a man and all.

Work for myself now....

I work in finance for one of the top 25 companies to work for according to The Times list, we all regularly mention the kids in meetings. We don't dwell on them or have full discussions but little quips are often. I know the names, ages of my VP's kids.

It's the norm nowadays. The law establishment is full of old people, you'll catch up with people like you striving forwards!

somesunny that sounds grim. I'd have left too.

I am overall lucky in that its a firm doing worthwhile public interest work filled with kind people who respect home life. They have been very flexible with me and my childcare arrangements. Because it is a good place I feel quite confident I can continue to be a lawyer/mother without disadvantage. I shall largely ignore my boss, although she means well.

Kerala when I was training I was told my voice lacked gravitas and I should wear heels. I ignored both, gleefully!

I'm a lawyer too and ttc my first at the moment. My firm overall has some brilliant inspirational female partners who are mothers. My team on the other hand ... dreading the day when I tell them I'm pregnant. Attitudes like this stink and are even worse coming from a fellow mother!

kerala, that's almost funny. except it's depressing. sometimes people are allowed to be women. 50% of the time roughly.

in my work, when they offer overtime, all the mothers put their hand up for it. none of them want it but they all pretend they do. except me. i have my integrity and I can almost live off that.

This sounds like the sort of rubbish that perpetuates with some of the older, male partners at my firm (not law). All the women get told they're not authoritative enough yet a man who cannot present at all, nervous and jittery, does not get told the same thing. I try and take comfort in the fact that not everyone thinks like that, and that some of these people may give way to some more, er, modern thinkers soon!

I absolutely refuse to be something I'm not and actually I do think that many of the city firms are missing a trick. Many clients don't want to be wined and dined (especially if they have kids) but clients do want to work with other people that they get on with. What you are outside work helps clients see you as someone they'd like to work with - someone who is a bit human. It's just a pity that law firms are so retrograde in this...and dismiss so much talent because they have the qualities which make them so much more personable and genuine.

What would Elspeth Tassioni do?

you want to be seen as a lawyer not a mother

she'd had clients dump her when she told them she was part time.

Sounds like she had good reason for her advice.

I was advised by my university careers advisor not to admit I had DS1 as it would negatively affect my employment prospects. Now I have DS2 he comes into the office after hours if I need to collect things, carry on working after the nursery pick up etc. My colleagues know him and talk to him, it's lovely.