how to handle an expressing mother in class. WWYD?

[susanjones123]

NC because this will definitely out me to any colleagues or students.

One of my students (I'm an HE lecturer) had 6 months off recently to have a baby. She's now returned to study which is great and we are delighted to have her back. The department has been very accommodating for her and let her miss classes, leave early when necessary, bring her baby to meetings etc.

So far, so fine.

She's still BFing and using expressed milk when her DH does the feeding. She uses an electric pump. The problem is that she uses the pump in the classroom. I don't mean in the actual class, during the lectures but at the beginning when everyone is arriving and sometimes during group work activities. I, personally, find this very off-putting (not putting me off my teaching but just generally quite off-putting) and other students have commented quite negatively.

As the main academic she has contact with, I feel as though it falls to me to have a word about this but I'm really unsure how to handle it.

I bottle-fed both of mine from day 1 so I'd really appreciate the experiences of people who have BF on this, please.

Grow up ithought. Is there really any need for your rudeness?

Yes, that would be my only issue with this scenario.

gold, watch the link I posted earlier, some are surprisingly disruptive.

I just found it difficult to pump myself without taking half my clothes off! Just me then, perhaps she wears extremely baggy clothes and turns away but I find it quite hard to imagine attaching a pump especially dual pump discreetly and removing without anyone in a small group seeing anything.

You can cover up whilst using a double pump, op says the woman wears a top with slits in it or bfeeding top it allow access whilst staying covered up.

Of the noise is a problem then that can be dealt with with a quieter pump, she is mainly pumping before lesson anyway the op says.

And whilst at uni we did drink in seminars, most students had a water bottle or cup of coffee. Ditto in lectures.

quangle - YY, I take that point and I have seen it argued (strongly) before.

I think what bothered me most about the OP was she seemed to be suggesting it was ok for her to be put off, and that her students had a point.

I get that it is important to try to get better at sorting out maternity leave for student parents, but I don't think the OP was going for that.

I can't see your link, Slithy, but the students are complaining because they know it is happening, not because they can see anything.

I personally don't get how she does it in public either. I am a public bf'er but not a public pumper. I have been known to pop into a pub toilet and pump and wouldn't dream of sitting quietly in the corner of a pub or cafe pumping much less a classroom!

I think if you ask her to move into a designated area which is private she can't really say anything. It's totally different to if she was actually feeding. And she is obviously already arriving early to allow time to pump. If it was me I would greatly appreciate your gesture!

And I have said throughout the thread the students complaints are wrong. I've also not mentioned anyone seeing anything.

The link was purely to demonstrate my one personal issue with pumping I'm this environment, which would be the noise. Since apparently I do have to defend it - yes, they can be very loud.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=j_lATPcU3rQ

Alright alright slithy . Jeepers!

in this environment

Jeepers indeed!

You need to be careful, and also enlist help - you're quite right, you shouldn't be dealing with this, and I suspect you'll be hung out to dry if this goes tits up - self preservation needed!

Other than that, I think you're stance needs to be very clear that general 'icky' complaints are not supported by you and that you will not act on them. You need to make that super clear, and be, and be seen to be completely supportive of the mothers choice to breast feed.

However it does seem a bit distracting and noisy at certain points, so if you/ the college wants to address this then that's all you can say, nothing about making others uncomfortable. Personally I'd be making sure I wasn't the one having that conversation as it could easily tip over into making the mum feel upset & persecuted. But if you do have to do it, ask the mum first about how the college can help her and support her in bf. Ideally finding a way forwards that doesn't even mention the complaints...

I'd also find out whether the girl has been offered a comfortable, private place to express, as it's not clear whether she's choosing to express in the classroom or doesn't have a better alternative.

I get that, slithy, it's just it seems that this isn't the OP's issue? Could be wrong, but I do think it doesn't read that way.

You'd surely start a thread with 'My student is expressing, it's all very laudable (and by the way, I have a full understanding of university terms and the likelihood of pastoral tutors being involved not me), but it sounds like a helicopter hovering and so the others are complaining, AIBU to ask her if she can't use the private room?'

misc, did you mean to type 'the girl'?

It's not been said explicitly but I really doubt this is an early admission 17 year old. What with her being married with an unusually time-rich husband who's looking after the baby.

Agreed

I still think that not all situations are appropriate for expressing though. I would not do it in a professional capacity and don't believe others should.

On the flip side, I don't think anyone should be made to either. Breaks, relaxation and comfort were very important for the 1/2 oz I managed to produce.

Sorry Slithy. I thought your post was a response to my more recent one.

I guess we'll have to wait to see if the OP returns to find out whether the noise is sufficient to cause genuine disruption or it's just the fact that people just know it is happening that's so off-putting.

Ps I was given the disabled toilet to express in - which someone used to take their daily dump in. It was foul. Balancing the pump and tubes and motor on my lap, at rotting with ice packs and cool bags. All whilst sitting on a stinky dirty toilet... It really was a low moment. I felt (as well as smelled!) shit.

They refused to let me keep the milk in one of the three refrigerators, as they were 'bodily fluids' and the implication was that the milk might somehow contaminate others people food.

Eventually they let me move to the server cupboard instead of the toilet, but as the IT guys needed constant access and there wasn't room to leave a chair in there, it wasnt really ok either.

Looking back on it, this was instrumental in me giving up breast feeding, but I was too scared of fucking up my job to dig my heels in until they started treating me right. I was alteady having to 'prove myself' because if dating to have a baby and take mat leave. Bastards.

Sorry Gold I wasn't clear.

As LRD said, it doesn't look like the noise was the issue, except maybe during the group work. It is just that from my personal perspective, that is what I would struggle with in this environment.

Seeing or knowing about pumping isn't an issue.

'kin Hell misc that is brutal :(

Ooooh it boils my blood it do.

Yes - I know you can cover up whilst pumping. However, I've basically been exclusively expressing for the best part of 18 months.

I need remove my top half clothes and put on my expressing bra. My nipples clearly show through the slits. Then I have to stick the horns through the slits. Start the pump. Arrange the horns for maximum suction - ensuring nipples are fully distended and there are two vacuums. Quite often I need to fiddle with the valves. All of the arranging of horns has to be done whilst sitting down near the pump or just as I start pumping. Even if I put the bra on beforehand (very unwise - no support), you still need to do all the arranging. It takes two hands and I don't believe it can be done by sticking your hands up your top. Believe me - I've tried whilst expressing in the car.

Once all of that is done, you then need to remove everything and put your bra back on etc. is this all being done in the classroom? It is much more revealing than breastfeeding.

I post a lot on a blog frequented by exclusive expressers. If there was a way to do all that arranging discretely in public, then someone would be posting how as we'd all love to know. It's not as simple as: "oh, just cover up".

LRD - crap no I didn't meant to!!! Argh that's when edit would be great. Err, thats unfortuneate.

I was grappling with a girl whos staying here and who won't go to bed when I wrote it (girl as in preschool age!), perhaps that's why it went into the post? Bad bad bad.

Sorry.

For the record I'm a feminist who doesn't believe that women should be infantilised by their labels or anything else.

Sorry girls (too soon? runs for cover!)

If there was a way to do all that arranging discretely in public, then someone would be posting how as we'd all love to know.

The OP has said very clearly that they can see nothing.

Even if you could get a glimpse of a nipple now and then, whose fault would is be that they were looking in the first place. It's not as if they don't know what she'd doing is it?

"What about if my students announced that they couldn't concentrate as it was far too hot in the lecture room (true) and that they needed to all remove their tops? What about if one had a disorder that made them sweat more than everyone else so argued they alone should be allowed?"

What about if your students started buying really big pens and pencils, that were so big that they were knocking into the people sitting next to them while they were writing.

Or instead of just discretely chewing gum, they sat blowing bubbles as big as their heads.

And instead of sitting discretely with one ear phone in, they bought in a ghetto-blaster and turned it up full volume so nobody could hear you talking.

These are all as likely scenarios as a mother making herself fully topless to breastfeed.

Why is it reasonable for you to wheel out that stupid, unlikely scenario, and use it as a rationale for banning expressing in class, but not for regulating the size of people's pencils?

Really - the best thing for everyone to do is get some clarity on what the LAW says on this issue, and as far as I can see it supports a woman's right to breastfeed or express in any setting, no matter how much the people around her dislike it. It also makes it illegal for people to harrass her to stop, or exclude her from educational situations.

misc - whew, and I'm sorry too!

Let's cover ourselves in confusion. Or something.

Does the law protect bf / expressing while working?

As in, while performing a job, as opposed to be given a break in order to bf / express?

Seems a grey area to me considering that it's not a legal requirement to provide a place to bf / express (though IMO it should be)