how to handle an expressing mother in class. WWYD?

[susanjones123]

NC because this will definitely out me to any colleagues or students.

One of my students (I'm an HE lecturer) had 6 months off recently to have a baby. She's now returned to study which is great and we are delighted to have her back. The department has been very accommodating for her and let her miss classes, leave early when necessary, bring her baby to meetings etc.

So far, so fine.

She's still BFing and using expressed milk when her DH does the feeding. She uses an electric pump. The problem is that she uses the pump in the classroom. I don't mean in the actual class, during the lectures but at the beginning when everyone is arriving and sometimes during group work activities. I, personally, find this very off-putting (not putting me off my teaching but just generally quite off-putting) and other students have commented quite negatively.

As the main academic she has contact with, I feel as though it falls to me to have a word about this but I'm really unsure how to handle it.

I bottle-fed both of mine from day 1 so I'd really appreciate the experiences of people who have BF on this, please.

ithoughtofitfirst no worries and you weren't !

Just wondering how comfortable some people here are with these images.

Lots of people online saying that classrooms and graduation ceremonies are no place for breastfeeding.

I do think it'd be nice if leave were easier to take, but then ... it's her choice.

And teachers are entitled to breastfeed in public too. When would you expect HE teachers to have babies if they can't breastfeed while working? This is a serious question. Women of childbearing age who're teaching at universities are mostly not on permanent contracts. They will often struggle to get - or afford - maternity leave to cover the total amount of time for which they want to breastfeed.

I wouldn't want to be sat next to a cow that was being mechanically milked

A more strange example, not many cows attend university that I'm aware of.

But yes, not my best comparison. I just have wholly failed to see any poster that says it's inappropriate explain why.

I think that's her point, TBF!

Either you are working or you are caring for a child

What, like this Italian mp?

Toothy, a poster wanted to know why its okay to sit next to a person drinking a glass of cow's milk , but not okay to sit next to somebody expressing milk.

As I said - I don't particularly want to see (and hear) the mechanics whereby the cow is milked and the milk is extracted in order for it to get in the glass. in the first place.

The world would be a better place if people could feel free to express wherever is more convenient (just as they would bf)

But the transition from having a baby to returning to work or study might not always be so clean cut and straightforward. Does it need to be that black and white? It's easy for me to say because I didn't return tp anything and by that age my son was on formula anyway. I think the fact she's expressing sort of before the lesson starts rather than mid lecture means she is being pretty considerate.

In that situation I think the breast feeding is a symptom of an untenable situation. Working is working and is rarely something that can be done simultaneously while caring for a child. The bf situation is just a sideshow there - In most workplaces it just would not be permitted and I'm fine with that.

It's very bad that so many are on such precarious contracts but I would not be pleased to be told that my teacher, counsellor, Pilates instructor, policewoman, accountant! whoever would be rendering services to me while caring for their two month old

"The word 'inappropriate' keeps getting thrown around. But why is what I don't understand."

Nobody will say it because it makes it clear how wrong headed this whole thing is.

People feel breastfeeding or expressing is inappropriate for public settings because they see it as an activity which falls into the same category as going to the toilet, or doing something sexual. Because it involves a part of the body that in this country is seen primarily as sexual, and because it involves a bodily fluid that people are mistrustful of, and see as, frankly, a bit disgusting - as is evidenced by the popularity of the 'bitty' sketch on Little Britain, and the Aldi advert, where the dad realised he'd drunk his partner's milk by accident and sat with a look of disgusted horror on his face as the advert finished.

Meanwhile, in previous centuries, breastfeeding and breast milk was celebrated in high art, rather than seen as something a bit embarrassing that needs to be done in private:

Well, you might well be right there, quangle, I can't disagree.

The working world is mostly set up for people who don't produce babies. It didn't used to be, and it doesn't need to be, I think. I don't know - this is speculation.

That said, honestly, I do think academia is or should be a pretty good context for including babies. There are workplaces like that. You wouldn't bat an eyelid if your childminder looked after your toddler and his. Undergraduates have to learn to accommodate all sorts of distractions from fellow students, and from lecturers. I don't see how breastfeeding or even expressing is different.

Quangle - most women around the world have to work after having a baby.

It's been like that for about 10 million years.

If women couldn't breastfeed while also being economically productive the human race would probably have died out by now.

But she is expressing mid lecture. During group work. With a potentially noisy, disruptive pump.

The act of producing milk - fine, though perhaps not as hygenic as it should be.

But the disruption - not fine, or fair to other paying students.

And I would be very unimpressed to see or have to bf in the workplace, or express. I would expect an appropriate, comfortable place to be laid on with the necessary facilities.

As I said, I work in retail, and would not be pumping while sat on the till or booking in stock.

Mini you've been given lots of other examples of things that are inappropriate at work that are not sexual.

And I don't see bf or expressing as gross or sexual or anything else which has been negatively mentioned.

Only that the use of an electric pump could be noisy!

I also feel that an expressing mother shouldn't have to sit in a potentially uncomfortable seat, without appropriate facilities.

Weeeeey slithy is back with her noisy pump anecdotes

I wouldn't have been a allowed to pump in public at work - never tried as it would have been a horror to behold :) - I was provided with a room though and used my breaks - I was able to schedule myself though where she doesn't have that - maybe ask how her expressing routine could be fitted in with the timetable and would she appreciate booking of a room to do that - find a private space that she could use and maybe a chair and table be put there for her use ?

Could she bf during lectures rather than expressing then if she brings the baby with her anyway?

Only that the use of an electric pump could be noisy!

What? A breast pump is so noisy that people cannot talk over it?

Students don't eat or drink in lectures so the cow's milk is out anyway (I do allow cups of tea for the postgrads but most places in the university, this is not allowed)

I'm still waiting for all these examples of people openly expressing in work meetings or lecture halls or seminars in front of students and colleagues, I know there won't be any just as I've started to wonder if this is real given it never actually happens in real life

For all those pro-pumping in lectures, would it be ok if the student used a dual pump on both sides whilst in the group? If not, why not? (given the chances of doing this discreetly or covering yourself up a bit would be nil)? Would it be ok if she said she needed to take her top off to get better access otherwise the pump wouldn't work properly (as they have to be angled correctly)? Again, is this justified?

What about if my students announced that they couldn't concentrate as it was far too hot in the lecture room (true) and that they needed to all remove their tops? What about if one had a disorder that made them sweat more than everyone else so argued they alone should be allowed?

There are norms around both nudity and sexual parts of the body- discreet breastfeeding largely doesn't challenge these as you don't see much (although this is too much for some), expressing/pumping with a pump does in a different way.

That's not to say that if the norms changed, I mind. I can't see the public pumping campaign taking off though, its far less obviously about a baby going hungry at that time-point and it is more easily equated with sexual activities perhaps.

I have studied for three degrees. I am also exclusively expressing for 5 month old DD and have done for 19 month old DS

I therefore think I have plenty of hands on experience as a student and an expresser. I personally feel that the noise of the pump would be distracting for others.

Plus - I really want to know how this lady wrangles herself in and out of her expressing bra - presume she has one - before and after.

I think breast feeding, expressing, soothing, changing a baby are all perfectly normal and natural activities.

But they don't have a place in a lecture theatre.

The working world is mostly set up for people who don't produce babies

Very true LRD. And I'd like to see that changed. But not at the expense of women's ability to disengage from the childrearing iyswim. This is a whole new debate I realise ...but the old world of work where women peacefully slung their babies on their backs and went out to the fields was also just slavery and drudgery. I was very happy to breast feed and I fought to do it but I value my child free work as well. If we take our children to work with us they just remain women's work even more than they are now. Off topic I realise and not really right for the thread but minifingers vision is not one I share.

discreet breastfeeding largely doesn't challenge these as you don't see much (although this is too much for some)

The OP has made it clear that they don't see anything. This isn't about nudity. It's solely about them being aware it is happening.