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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Effectively asked to leave cafe..AIBU or was he?

402 replies

Hoptoit · 28/06/2014 16:56

Today my husband, 3 yo and 2 yo twins went for lunch in a small local cafe that we go to maybe once a month. It's quite informal and I took the pile of kids toys as an indication that families were welcome. The twins were fractious and hungry, and having a bit of a shout, but we ordered food and waited for them to settle. There were about two other tables of people in there at this time.

After we ordered the owner made a comment along the lines of 'give it a rest now kids' which I took as a joke, then about 5 minutes later, after the children's food had arrived, but before my husbands and mine had he came over and said,'your going to have to stop them making this noise, they are disturbing everyone else lunch. It's just not on.'

So, my husband ate a bit of his lunch then took the twins to sit in the car while I picked at mine. Just after he left a lovely lady on the table next to us came over to say she'd heard what he said and was disgusted and wanted me to know she hadn't complained to him about the noise, and that she planned to say something to him when she left. I'm ashamed to say that I was so embarrassed and stressed that this made me cry.

As I went to pay my £30 bill for the mostly uneaten food, he asked me if everything had been ok?! I said I was mortified by what he'd said. He got all chippy and defensive about it so I didn't say anymore.

It has ruined what should have been a lovely day. Twins aren't easy and I am very conscious if not impacting on other people negatively, but this place gives the impression of being child friendly, and we weren't letting them run wild or anything like that.

So what do you think, was he out of line or should we have left sooner? It was a terrible mortifying experience.

OP posts:
LoveSardines · 28/06/2014 19:42

It is unfriendly to children when people are told that they must not take childrento cafes, even if the cafes describe themselves as child friendly.

Around here a lot of cafes cater to people with young families and if advice on here was followed then a lot of them would go out of business.

Personally I didn't take my children out at all when they were young / babies as it was so stressful that they might make a noise, but I think that other people shouldn't be made to feel like that.

fledermaus · 28/06/2014 19:43

squatcher, what is family friendly about listening to someone else's children screaming and shouting for long enough that the owner has to speak to them before and after their food has arrived? If I go to a family friendly cafe with my baby and pre-schooler I want to be able to enjoy a meal with my family!

If I'm in McDonalds then fine, I would put up with screaming kids. But if we have gone to somewhere nice (and family friendly) then I want a nice meal.

Sirzy · 28/06/2014 19:43

Being child friendly does not mean that they have to accept all behaviour though, or that they have to accept children being allowed to scream.

It is up to parents to take the effort to control their children and minimise disruption to other diners.

KatieKaye · 28/06/2014 19:43

All that screaming and shouting would be off-putting to any potential customers. He could have lost a lot of trade.

As the three-fold screaming and shouting went on before and during lunch I'd have found it very wearing/annoying if I was a paying customer. Agree that "family friendly" does not mean letting your children behave like this.

Sorry, OP - YANVU. Next time you and DP need to work out a strategy of how to deal with the children - have some books or small toys, take it in turns to take them outside etc. But don't expect other people to put up with all that screaming and shouting because most people find it vey annoying and wouldn't chose to share a room with that going on, far less having to pay at the same time.

LoveSardines · 28/06/2014 19:44

Yes quite redroom however a lot of cafes around our way would go out of business so I'm not sure that is the answer either.

LoveSardines · 28/06/2014 19:45

Or just don't take the childen out katie which would answer the question just as well.

Babies and children do make a noise, no-one can get around that. So easier and better all round that they don't frequent cafes / or the like.

JodieGarberJacob · 28/06/2014 19:46

If we go to a pub that advertises itself as a dog-friendly pub with dog beds in the corner and bowls of water out I wouldn't expect to hear constant barking, growling, yapping or free running dogs. As a dog owner as soon as I realised my dog wasn't responding to my commands I would take the dog out, calm him down or abandon the visit. My point is that even if an establishment calls itself family friendly, normal social 'rules' apply.

LoveSardines · 28/06/2014 19:46

Maybe cafes need to have child free signs - no under 5s or whatever - I assume that would be legal.

Probably other locations as well could pick up on that.

fledermaus · 28/06/2014 19:49

Baby and child noise in a child friendly cafe is fine though.

Screaming and shouting is not what you'd expect.

I take mine out to eat a lot, but if they were already "having a shout" before we'd even sat down I would think about grabbing some sandwiches and going to the park. If they screamed and shouted during the meal and couldn't be placated then one parent would have to take them outside - or we'd have to ask for the food to go.

I would also be mortified if a cafe owner had to speak to me twice about my children screaming, because surely it is obvious that you can't sit and eat a meal in a cafe if your child is shouting it's head off.

SueDoku · 28/06/2014 19:50

TripAdvisor is your friend....

Sirzy · 28/06/2014 19:51

Or maybe just signs which say "children welcome if you are willing to ensure they don't disrupt other diners" which most parents mange to do most of the time!

Fledermaus exactly!

baskingseals · 28/06/2014 19:51

Well they couldn't have been screaming that loudly, otherwise the lady sitting at the next table wouldn't have said what she did.
Tolerance is a two way thing.

JodieGarberJacob · 28/06/2014 19:51

Tbh, even if I was in Macdonalds I would find sustained screaming and shouting unacceptable. Indoor public places can have really bad acoustics!

Dancergirl · 28/06/2014 19:52

I would have been mortified too and left immediately. And I would be furious if I saw someone being treated like this and would complain

Why? Are you that precious that you can't accept being told your children are making too much noise and disturbing people?

LoveSardines · 28/06/2014 19:52

It's not fine though is it as evidenced on this thread.

I think maybe no under 5s (under 12s?) cafes would be a good answer so that people who don't want to have that would know they could go and have a cup of tea there without being disturbed.

JodieGarberJacob · 28/06/2014 19:52

Are you purposely misunderstanding what people are saying love sardines?

JodieGarberJacob · 28/06/2014 19:54

...that was to your under 5s sign

KatieKaye · 28/06/2014 19:55

Gosh lovesardines that's a mature and rational response. And ignores just about everything I said in my post to go off on an obscure tangent that bears no relation to what I wrote.

The café owner is running a business - he isn't doing this as a charitable service to families. Very few people want to sit and put up with that while the parents do nothing to stop the screaming and shouting. You might be fine with it, but other people are allowed to find it bloody annoying. Including the café owner.

LoveSardines · 28/06/2014 19:56

sirzy not really children do make a noise babies cry, even children who are bigger sometimes drop cutlery and stuff, some people have a very low tolerance for noise sometimes with good reason like the poster upthread's husband so actually child-free cafes are sounding like the answer here so that actually everyone can feel comfortable. People who don't want to be disturbed won't be, and people with children won't have to leave food that they have paid for or whatever if their child starts crying etc.

EmperorTomatoKetchup · 28/06/2014 19:56

hoptoit if you go to this cafe once a month how do your kids normally behave and how does the owner normally act? You've presumably never been asked to leave before so there was clearly something different about today?

We only have one 2 year old and find going to cafes very hard work. We've had some humdingers of tantrums but never been asked to leave anywhere, though to be honest one of us would normally head straight outside with him.

EarthWindFire · 28/06/2014 19:56

It is unfriendly to children when people are told that they must not take childrento cafes, even if the cafes describe themselves as child friendly.

No one has said the children shouldn't be there, but that there is an acceptable level of behaviour. General children noise is fine, shouting going unchecked by parents is not.

Dancergirl · 28/06/2014 19:57

Oh for goodness sake, boycotting the cafe, trip advisor etc....

Why can't some people accept what the cafe owner was saying and take it on board? Do you suppose he WANTED to complain the children were making a noise? But he's got a business to run and that means considering ALL his customers.

It's very simple. Someone (cafe owner etc) complains dc are misbehaving/making too much noise. You APOLOGISE and take appropriate action (take them outside or whatever).

It's basic manners.

LoveSardines · 28/06/2014 19:58

I'm not fine with it which is why I didn't take my children out at all when they were young but I think it is a shame that others have to feel like that.

If there were child free cafes then that would solve this problem wouldn't it. rather than people having to get up and leave when their child starts crying even if it's the middle of their coffee or whatever.

baskingseals · 28/06/2014 19:59

They did do something about it though, the op's husband took the twins to the car. What do you think the op should have done?

Sirzy · 28/06/2014 19:59

again nobody has said children shouldn't make noise, or they should behave perfectly. They have said that parents should think of others and that some noise is unacceptable - screaming being one of them.

Even a crying baby most parents would take out if they couldn't be settled after a few minutes.