Effectively asked to leave cafe..AIBU or was he?

[Hoptoit]

Today my husband, 3 yo and 2 yo twins went for lunch in a small local cafe that we go to maybe once a month. It's quite informal and I took the pile of kids toys as an indication that families were welcome. The twins were fractious and hungry, and having a bit of a shout, but we ordered food and waited for them to settle. There were about two other tables of people in there at this time.

After we ordered the owner made a comment along the lines of 'give it a rest now kids' which I took as a joke, then about 5 minutes later, after the children's food had arrived, but before my husbands and mine had he came over and said,'your going to have to stop them making this noise, they are disturbing everyone else lunch. It's just not on.'

So, my husband ate a bit of his lunch then took the twins to sit in the car while I picked at mine. Just after he left a lovely lady on the table next to us came over to say she'd heard what he said and was disgusted and wanted me to know she hadn't complained to him about the noise, and that she planned to say something to him when she left. I'm ashamed to say that I was so embarrassed and stressed that this made me cry.

As I went to pay my £30 bill for the mostly uneaten food, he asked me if everything had been ok?! I said I was mortified by what he'd said. He got all chippy and defensive about it so I didn't say anymore.

It has ruined what should have been a lovely day. Twins aren't easy and I am very conscious if not impacting on other people negatively, but this place gives the impression of being child friendly, and we weren't letting them run wild or anything like that.

So what do you think, was he out of line or should we have left sooner? It was a terrible mortifying experience.

squatcher it's been suggested that parents should be proactive if their children scream and shout.No one had said that chatting ess inappropriate.

like i can hear them downstairs with dh now tehri voices are more penetrating than his due to the pitch and so yes more annoying

It's just finding a middle ground of them being reasonably well behaved but no one expects them to be silent

Hmm - I think a fair amount has been stronger than that. Not disputing that of course parents should proactively try to keep kids quiet.

LoveSardines - you can't spend your life trying to negotiate issues they may not even arise and apologising for your presence. As someone who's experienced anxiety disorder myself it sounds as if you may need some support working through your fear of other people's responses to your children.

OP has vanished but she did reply to say she wasn't passive and they were trying to quieten the kids.

I think she would have said in her OP if she really had been trying hard to quieten the kids. Anyway, it's impossible really to know who was being unreasonable without being there at the time.

Personally I think he was totally out of line and shouldn't have said anything to you! Kids kick off sometimes, that's life, I'm pretty sure his negative attitude would only have stressed you out and in turn stressed your kids out even more!
If I'd have been you, I would have told him to do one after he came over and confronted you at the table, and left without eating the food/or paying, I certainly wouldn't go back.
I'd also follow it up by officially complaining to them to see what their response is.

All the ooooh kids screaming goes right through me comments, yes kids can be noisy sometimes, it's not ideal, but all our kids have done it, how about we show a bit of support to one another!?

I think what people have taken objection to in this case in the way the OP has normalised the fact that they were shouting, and only thought about removing them for a bit AFTER someone had spoken to them.

I think most people have agreed that shouting in a cafe/restaurant is not acceptable and parents should take some sort of steps to stop this, Most parents do, but people rightly get annoyed when people can't see that their children are being disruptive.

Of course some children are going to be much better in these situations, and parents have to judge each situation based on their child. With regards to the argument about people with special needs I know two children with autism who are able to cope with eating out (after a lot of hard work by their parents) but noises like children screaming would be too much for them and would cause them to really struggle with the situation so even that side of things works both ways.

Seriously though, my kids have never screamed through a meal in a cafe. That's not just "one of those things".

Screamed on the bus while we are trying to get somewhere, yes. Screamed in a cafe/pub/restaurant where we could take them out straight away, no.

saintly - you seem a bit confused about the facts as stated by the OP.

Tthere were two other tables there. Not one. Probably with a minimum of 2 people at each.

The owner told OP he had complaints. Given the screaming and shouting had not diminished even after the food had arrived this isn't surprising. Or are you suggesting that the owner was lying?

Only one person said she didn't have a problem. That leaves the possibility that a minimum of 75% of the other customers did. Plus the owner and his staff.

In any case, it's pretty irrelevant as there's no doubt three kids creating a loud noise for a long time while the parents do nothing isn't exactly the scenario most people envisage when popping out to a café for lunch.

What it boils down to is : was the OP BU to be annoyed that other people get annoyed when she just sit back and let her DCs scream and shout in a café?

To which my answer would be definitely. Not because of the children making a noise but because she didn't do anything.

I think what people have taken objection to in this case in the way the OP has normalised the fact that they were shouting, and only thought about removing them for a bit AFTER someone had spoken to them

She didn't even do anything when the manager first spoke. She thought it was a joke.

Of course children aren't going to be silent. That's unrealistic, but I think most people don't expect parents to be oblivious to the comfort of those around them. The OP seemed to think the screaming and shouting was something normal that she could passively hope would stop. She only addressed the issue when she was embarrassed into it.

The owner said 'they are disturbing everyone else's lunch' how does that translate into he had complaints?

Mine are 3 and 2 so I haven't forgotten anything, and I think YABU and intransigent.

Mine are not allowed to scream or shout in public (aside from at the playground, beach or softplay) and would have been removed immediately.

YABU. Shouting and screaming children are extremely irritating and you were v rude to let that happen without appearing to quieten your children; why should all the other patrons of the cafe have their experience ruined by your passive, entitled parenting.

You are so adamant that YANBU in the face of many YABUs that I do wonder whether the woman who came over to you and said it didn't bother her even existed, as this was telling us all that you were definitely NBU before we had a chance to ponder the issue.

hahaha the 'experience' of eating in a caff .

Why is that funny tobysmum? Some of us can't afford the fine-dining establishments that you obviously can. Should we have to put up with screaming and shouting because it's only a 'caff' where the poor go?

Oh come on you go in, they give you a sandwich and you are out in half an hour. It is functional eating not an 'experience'.

It would have made more sense for him to take them out before the food arrived. OP says they were shouting because they were hungry, so remove them from the room, take them to shout in the car and, five minutes later, bring them back to eat.

Because you did nothing, OP, even when asked, I think he was right to ask that you quiet down so I agree YABU. Hopefully, you will have a better idea of what to do next time this happens.

My comment about the pitch is that if they are screaming or shouting, it can be uncomfortable on the ears. I have no issue with normally child noise - that is part of life.

The sustained squealing and screaming is unpleasant . But then I don't go to places like cafés anyway so I avoid the issue as I aware that it's my problem.

YY this is it isnt it you don't know what other poeple are thinking and really no-one should be distrubed by anyone else

I mean even if you go and sit on a bench and someone is there already they often give you a look who knows what it means probabyl they are thinking they had the bench to themselves they don;t want someone else theer let alone with a child in a pushchair who migth cry or children who will run around or talk or whatever, I have noticed quite a lot when you go to sit somewheer people don't like it. I mean on teh train on my commute peopel often huff and stuff but I put that down to some people are just like that and really they can't expect peopel not to sit near them on a crowded train but if you have children with yu it's different isnt it as they might make a noise so their antipathy is kind of warrented so really that;s that.

The pitch thing is troubling me really I don't know how to gwt round that one.

squatcher yes maybe but you know not all fears are unwarranted people do get angry with children when they are there and so that is what a lt of people on the thread are saying why they shouldn't go out etc

Oh come on you go in, they give you a sandwich and you are out in half an hour. It is functional eating not an 'experience'

For some people it's an occasional treat. Not everyone can afford it as a regular activity.

Not that I'd ever take children on a commuter train obviously unless it was utterly unavoidable as that would be a total nightmare but some poepple have to and really I think that's fine I stand up if they havelittle ones as it must be scary for them crammed in amongst enormous adults like that

If you feel it is just a "functional eating" why not just eat/drink at home?

I think this is where the humble breadstick, rice-cake or some other appetiser comes in very useful.

But I do agree that taking one or more of them out while the food came would have been a good plan. Or telling a story, or a quick guessing game.. But all of that is harder to do with three of them.

Then again, it depends on the situation, the cafe was on a narrow street with busy pavements, they can't exactly go out and 'let off steam'.

Love I think you are taking this way too hard - are you okay? Like I said, if children are screaming or shouting, it is unpleasant for me because I am over sensitive to loud high noises as it makes my almost permanent headache worse.

I think you are focussing on the pitch comment way too much. I spend time with young children occasionally, normal noise is fine and a short burst of loud noise is okay.

If the noise is sustained, I leave, but that's because it's my problem.