to think faith schools should be banned?

[fluffymouse]

Not just because they aren't inclusive or diverse, but also because of the local impact.

My nearest school is a faith school. Every day when I drive to work, I see dozens of cars parked along the street of the school with parents dropping off children. They park everywhere on a very narrow street including double yellow lines and the zig zag lines outside the school. It seems like nobody walks to this school, as it quite simply does not serve the local community.

Local people have no chance of sending their children to this school unless they are off the faith, and they have very strict criteria for this. Meanwhile locals also have a lot of congestion to put up with. There is obviously also a big environmental impact.

Aibu to think that state schools should be inclusive, and not exclusive based on faith grounds, as all tax payers are contributing towards their running costs?

Exactly - which is why there are plenty of NON RELIGIOUS schools for the haters.

What I find risible is the way people still totally fail to understand what the R.E curriculum actually consists of. Do you really not know that the RE curriculum informs children about all religions and cultures? that is facilitates discussions of big ethical/moral questions which may well affect kids' lives in their future?

FFS. Get with the programme.

So far all the criticism has been aimed at Christian schools (same old, same old)

How can people consistently fail to understand that as this site is mostly populated by people in the UK, any discussion involving religion will naturally focus on the predominant religion in the UK i.e. Christianity.

It's enough to make me think whether religious schools actually are giving our society a decent education....

Do the haters also want Jewish and Muslim schools closed? There are loads of Jewish state schools round my way

Yes, absolutely. No state-funded religious schools OF ANY RELIGION.

charleybarley - yes, I really don't understand why 'sectarianism' and 'religious discrimination' are seen as bad things everywhere - except in education.

What I find risible is the way people still totally fail to understand what the R.E curriculum actually consists of. Do you really not know that the RE curriculum informs children about all religions and cultures?

As someone who went to a Catholic school, I can categorically say that, in my experience, this is almost absolute nonsense. I add the "almost" in there, because I do recall spending perhaps 10 mins on "What Judaism is" (Answer: wrong) and 5 mins on "What Islam is" (Answer: wrong).

Selection criteria based on anything but distance from school will mean that people will end up having to travel further - surely that's obvious?

That's all fine until the school down the road is doing badly and the one half a mile away is outstanding, then suddenly there are cries of 'geographical selection not fair- it is stifling my choice as a parent'. There really is no fair way with admissions, whilst there is such a difference between school standards in some areas.

Maidofstars- the failure is all yours, as the demographic round my way is approx. 50% Jewish. Don't assume.

Exactly - which is why there are plenty of NON RELIGIOUS schools for the haters.

There are no non-religious schools, only non-faith schools. All state schools are required to provide worship time of a 'broadly Christian nature'.

What I find risible is the way people still totally fail to understand what the R.E curriculum actually consists of. Do you really not know that the RE curriculum informs children about all religions and cultures? that is facilitates discussions of big ethical/moral questions which may well affect kids' lives in their future?

I don't see anyone failing to understand that RE as an educational subject is entirely different from enforced worship?

Quite ironic really that the ones vehemently defending their right to segregate themselves are calling other people haters

Maidofstars- the failure is all yours, as the demographic round my way is approx. 50% Jewish. Don't assume

So if you were having this conversation at a local community coffee morning, I would quite rightly expect more emphasis to be given to Judaism. But it's not, is it.

Nice try though.

Yabvu

And no, I don't think the state should contribute towards ANY faith school funding, especially where religious discrimination is enforced in the entry criteria.

house I believe it is mostly from torture and slavery... Many years of continued torture and slavery, to be exact.

Just recently it was discovered nuns in Ireland were starving children to death while sending the state-provided money they received to care for them up to the church.

That is where the church got it's money.

Selection criteria based on distance from school = selection criteria based on depth of pockets and social exclusion. Obviously some people are massively in favour of that.

Icanhearyou - I am really, really happy that there are faith schools - the Jewish ones, the CofE ones, the Muslim ones and the Catholic ones. Really happy. They are expressing their right to preserve and celebrate their religion and faith, a right which is enshrined by law. This thread is as usual full of sneering and spite, and as usual it's Christianity which is being targeted.

YANBU. The state has no business spending public money on schools that discriminate on religious grounds. My local school is an outstanding catholic school. The next nearest is an outstanding c of e school and the third nearest and the only one my kids can go to is a failing undersubscribed school where boys outnumber girls 4:1. That's my 'choice' for my daughters.

The religious schools are outstanding because pointy elbowed middle class parents go to church to get their kids in and alter the intake so it doesn't reflect the local community (even the local religious community).

I would like to use public money to set up a school for atheists where if there is any evidence that either you or your family practice any religion then you cannot apply. Sound like a good idea? Thought not.

And yes, on the OP's point, it would be much better if all kids could walk to school. Better for the environment, better for their health, better social cohesion. And here's an idea, we could leave religion to the churches, temples and mosques?

YANBU. My son goes to a church school in London (not because we're religious, we just got a place rather randomly - there's a massive lack of school places in our area and think a lot of people don't apply to the church schools as they think they won't get it). Many parents drop their kids off by car and we don't see any of the kids from his school in the local park. I don't feel the school has the same local community feeling as other nearby schools.

Parking aside, the big problem is this: Schools should not discriminate who can or can't come to their school based on proof of church attendance. It should be the same for all schools - priority in order of special needs, siblings and distance.

You don't have to prove your atheist beliefs to get priority into a non-church school, so the reverse should also be true!

donnie - a genuine question. Can you justify why you have greater choice of schools available to you, why you (probably) have closer schools available to you, why my children would be forced to worship at school according to your faith, when we both pay exactly the same amount of money (for the purposes of this question) into the school system?

How? How do you justify that?

They are expressing their right to preserve and celebrate their religion and faith, a right which is enshrined by law

I am all for religious freedom. Really truly all for it. But I don't see what your right to practice your religion as you see fit has to do with the school system that everyone pays for.

This thread is as usual full of sneering and spite, and as usual it's Christianity which is being targeted.

As someone has already said, might that not have something to do with the fact that for historical reasons, the (discriminatory) schools in the UK are mainly Christian ones?

"This thread is as usual full of sneering and spite, and as usual it's Christianity which is being targeted."

Where isrhe sneering and spite?

Anyway, I am not just against taxpayer's money being used for Christian schools - I am against it being used to fund any schools which exclude, rather than include. So I don't think there should be any religious schools at all, of whatever faith.

I do think RE is an important subject, though, and should be taught in all schools.
Does that make me a hater or not? I'm confused now.

Perhaps the catholics have all been priced out of the 'local community' by pointy elbowed monied people who thought they could buy their way into the school?

The simplest way to promote understanding and prevent fundamentalism and extremism is to allow children of different faiths to mix together and see that 'the other religions' are not full of bogeymen but rather ordinary people.

Yes ^^ that. How does that NOT make sense?

I needed a laugh, thanks OP

The simplest way to promote understanding and prevent fundamentalism and extremism is to allow children of different faiths to mix together and see that 'the other religions' are not full of bogeymen but rather ordinary people.

EXACTLY

We need to be teaching children tolerance and understanding, and attempting to segregate by religion doesn't do that.

I am Christian but have chosen to not send DS to a C of E school, as far as I am concerned it is my job to guide him when it comes to his religious decisions NOT the job of a school. The job of the school (and me as a parent of course) is to help him understand each religion and what they understand and to learn to respect others and their views.