To think that Saville was NEVER a "Much loved family favourite"???

[MrsWinnibago]

Sorry to start a thread about this sick, awful animal but they just said on Radio 4 that he was a much loved family favourite.

I CLEARLY remember watching him on Jim'l Fix It and thinking "Oh he's HORRIBLE!"

I hated him...he was frightening and I could see that some children were very scared of him on that show.

Did ANYONE actually enjoy his "performances" and appearances?? I don't think so.

I think the establishment kept him where he was...on TV and in positions of power because he knew too much about THEIR activities.

And it's funny how it all came out once he was dead and couldn't name anyone else.

I challenge anyone to think back and remember how much they "loved" him at the time before his activities were known.

I was born in the mid sixties, and remember when there were only two channels, and only a small amount of children's TV, and my memory is of trusting what I saw on TV. I am not saying I believed everything was real - I knew Dr Who was fiction, for example - but I trusted the factual programmes and, by extension, the people presenting them.

I think there was also a lot less awareness of abuse and paedophilia then - it is not something I ever remember hearing or reading about - I did have quite a sheltered life, but I didn't live with my head in a bag. I never heard a single rumour about anything inappropriate between any teachers and students at school.

I think the proliferation of information on the internet and on the huge number of TV channels has made this a far better-known issue, and has helped to make it much, much harder formabusers to do what Saville did, and hide in plain sight.

I may be wrong, but I think we had a far more unquestioning attitude towards authority back,then - people didn't question their family GP about their diagnosis or treatment, for example - and being on The BBC conferred a certain mantle of authority on presenters, even ones presenting lightweight programmes.

Things have changed a lot during the nearly 50 years I have been alive.

I think some people are comforting themselves by saying they always knew he was "creepy" because it's easier than the reality. The reality is that systemic abuse was covered up. The reality is that most abusers do not look creepy nor look uncomfortable. They are the parents who stand at the school gate collecting their children, they are the people who hold doors open for you, they are the people who serve you coffee. I say 'people' because women (although a significantly fewer number than men) sexually assault children too. You rarely hear people saying a woman abuser looks creepy. Then again, it's more comforting to pretend that paedophiles have a 'look' about them, isn't it?

I was at duncroft in the 60's.

it was documented online long before the bastard died, yet why was nothing done?

good question.

even then those who knew, turned a blind eye.
still pleading ignorance today.

...they know who they are...

tethersend I dislike this she said/I said thing but I'm going to go for it.

I said:

The suggestion is that people should have known if only their spidey senses were better. That is not only misleading but thoroughly offensive.

You said:

That is absolutely not the suggestion- nowhere on this thread has anyone even alluded to thinking this. Had they done so, it would indeed be misleading and offensive, on that we agree; but they have not.

The OP said this in her opening post:

^I CLEARLY remember watching him on Jim'l Fix It and thinking "Oh he's HORRIBLE!" I hated him...he was frightening and I could see that some children were very scared of him on that show...

I challenge anyone to think back and remember how much they "loved" him at the time before his activities were known.

This was from a TV appearance that I watched and interpreted not only benignly but enthusiastically.

Some other people have agreed with me. You and the OP interpreted it differently. All opinions are valid.

But if that's not alluding to heightened powers of perception - or spidey senses, I don't know what is. What knowledge did you have apart from having a funny feeling about him from watching him on the telly?

What happens if a parent says: 'I've got a funny feeling about that teacher because, though I can't put my finger on it, he frightens me and the children seem a bit scared.'

I have no difficulty in believing that some people thought he was creepy back then. People can have very different reactions to the same thing. It's not a value judgement on either the people who did find him creepy or those who didn't - it is just a 'we are all different' thing, surely?

MyFairyKing, you are putting words into people's mouths.

Plenty of us are acutely aware that paedophiles can be friendly, trusted friends or even family members.

Us saying that we disliked Jimmy Savile as children does not negate that.

Oh god yes I was and am totally aware that "Couldn't eat a whole one" wasn't Savile's own original phrase. It was just the way he said it and the way it took him ages to come up with something and then he said that.

He was a children's entertainer, if it wasn't for the ginormous elephant in the room he could simply have said, yes I've met loads of great kids on my show, it was great fun. He was aware he couldn't say that because Clare meant have meant "like children" in THAT way.

Thinking back, though, my parents didn't like JS - they never said why, and I put it down to them disapproving of everything to do with pop music - but maybe it was something else.

I don't think anyone on this thread is saying they always knew he was creepy, rather simply stating they didn't like him when they were kids. Myself included. Whether that reflects on my perception of the 'persona' of abusers in general is neither here nor there.

I agree, The reality is that most abusers do not look creepy nor look uncomfortable - I hazard the majority on this thread regardless of their childhood perception JS would concur with that statement.

*of JS that should read

Limited, that is not what I got from the OP at all. Not even from the lines you quoted.

I read that as the OP's cynicism that anyone ever loved JS as the media claimed, not that they should be pilloried for having done so.

"What happens if a parent says: 'I've got a funny feeling about that teacher because, though I can't put my finger on it, he frightens me and the children seem a bit scared.'"

As a teacher, I would hope that the parent would report the concerns to the school, and the school would monitor the situation. It could be malicious rumour on the part of the parent. It could be an observation which is one of many concerns the school already have. Deriding someone for voicing concerns is as harmful as pretending that all paedophiles are identifiable.

wallys I want you to know that I would never accuse you of accusing Mike Reid of paedophilia.

It's just got a bit heightened.

Wallet banters, I was just coming in to mention that very clip from Early Doors! My husband and I were watching it a few weeks ago and were actually dumbfounded when we heard it, my husband said 'we'll if ever there was proof the beeb did know what he was like...!'

He wasn't a favourite in our family, partly because he was such a crap presenter/DJ. I can't imagine him being so successful nowadays. He was foisted on us by the BBC and of course we had very few entertainment options.
As far as the creepy side of him goes, I can remember my Mum saying he was a 'bad man' ,way back in the 70's. I know there was gossip about him, even then. Obviously it was pre internet days though, so it was harder to put it all together then.

his shows were very popular

he was hiding behind a mask, the outfits the odd supposedly eccentric behaviour which we british love

I found him a little scary I think for many people something about him did not seem genuine but that does not mean I knew, I had heard rumours and was not surprised but the extent of the abuse I am it is truly shocking

of course many knew he was what would have been called a pervert and a blind eye was turned. I would imagine he could be very intimidating. It is no excuse especially when police reports have been made. We have to learn from this and it certainly has got more people talking about the abuse they suffered and hopefully many more convictions in the future

i do recall my brother being rather impressed with his chair which had various items that would pop out ....he really really wanted to go on the show.
we mentioned this to my stepmother who was a teacher and she said that Savile had visited her school and that he was a 'a very very nasty and unpleasant little man' .
the school was in Islington...

I actually don't know how they got away with this one.

tethersend So, what is the actual purpose of people retrospectively saying he looks creepy?! Paedophiles don't 'look' anything.

I didn't like him and that isn't hindsight. I thought he was creepy in the way small children think weird men with funny hair and horrible teeth are creepy.

He was 'much loved' though. If he wasn't he would not have been able to get away with his crimes for decades. Celeb culture was very different back then. People didn't get to meet 'stars' walking down the street like they do now. The pool of celebrity was much, much smaller too.

It is unfortunate that JS is pretty much the stereotype of what a paedophile is supposed to look like. It is bound to perpetuate the myth

When he died I do remember being puzzled at the moderate outpouring of 'oh no! I loved him' from friends and family and on social media.

I thought everyone knew. I am no even sure what I thought everyone knew and I certainly had NO idea of the scale of his crimes. I just thought it was a given that he was a nasty sort who did nasty things.

I don't have the same feelings about other celebrities of the same period who have been accused and/or convicted of sexual abuse so I don't believe it is me rewriting history in my head.

RH is not someone I thought of as an abuser. Nor was that hideous Its a Knockout bloke. Not that I am shocked but they were not people I associated with perversion in the way I did JS.

JS was a threatening individual who could scare most people. He was patron of a small children's charity my Dad's cousin was involved in. The charity paid for fun days out for disadvantaged children and JS would go on the days with the children. The charity asked him to step down as they were concerned about his behaviour around the children - I dread to think what happened. JS threatened the charity members and their families. He did step down, but for years my Dad's cousin was looking over his shoulder, wondering if something would happen to his family.

Gary Glitter always sailed very close to the wind. His visible 'girlfriends' were always very young. As an adult I did think he went out with girls that young because they were the closest he could get to children yet still remain on the right side of the law

He is a totally unrepentant paedophile who sees himself as an oppressed minority. He thinks he has been badly done by.

Vile man.

I loved Jim'll Fix It. I don't remember particularly liking him. I remember him snapping at a child who, when interviewing Saville, referred to Broadmoor as a prison and not a hospital.

I also remember a rather strange magazine interview where he made a great point of saying that he didn't let kids into his house in case people suspected him of being a paedophile - ironic, really.

My dad worked in TV for many years and so did I, for a while. Dad knew Saville quite well and seemed to like him. I didn't know him, but I worked with a lady who told me that Saville was a necrophiliac - that was the first time I heard the rumour and I thought she was just being silly.

I have a friend who was abused by Saville in the 70s. Her family lived in Leeds and her dad (who was also a very cruel man) ran marathons with Saville. My friend and her twin sister had to put up with Saville groping them and so on.

I think what is scary for me is that he presented jim'll fix it as an avuncular character making dreams come true.The whole thing was sold to children as wonderful and exciting to the extent that as a child feeling that actually he is a bit creepy and weird is a feeling you dismiss because everyone and the whole experience is trying to make you believe he is uncle Jim and he's your friend. actually he came across as a pp said as quite unpleasant to some of the kids. It's like the whole thing was conspiring to hoodwink kids and make them more vulnerable.

sunny the vile creature obviously had power. It couldn't have just been about his fame. I think he knew where a lot of bodies were buried.