to assume that 12 year old kids cannot be left alone in park

[mum7]

I would love to hear what you think: after sports day, my 12 year old daughter was left by herself in a park she was not familiar with. Apparently, she followed a large group of girls and then realised that these children were going home with their parents or by themselves. When she went back to where the games had been, no one was there. I called the school, and they did not know where she was. I think by then all the teachers had left. I have now re-read the letter from the school and it said that the "day is scheduled to finish at 3:45 at the track", which I now realised meant that we had to collect the girls from the track and not the school. Am I unreasonable to expect the school not to let my daughter alone just because I am not there as expected? If I had been late to collect her from school, she would have felt safe and just waited for me. In the park, she started panicking.

cost not coast!

This surely has to be a windup!

You didn't read the letter properly, and this is the school's fault?

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

Stinkle It's the blame culture we live in these days. There is just no point in NOT making it completely clear to parents what is expected.

I signed off a trip last week for yr12's, going to an old peoples home to paint with them. For 1 hour, during their usual timetabled lesson. It's boring and it's tiresome, BUT if anything had happened, everything is in place and covered.

Are you a teacher, Sanity?
This is par for the course, so I doubt it's a wind-up.

At the age of 12 she should be able to manage. I don't think you can blame the school if it said the events finished at 3.45 and you weren't there to collect her. And she wasn't really left on her own. She followed a group so the teachers probably thought she was getting a lift.

Maureen, have you had the whinging when you deny a child the right to leave school because there has been no permission slip received?
That's when you get roars from parents of 'FFS, it's just common sense, stop being a Jobsworth'

Sorry, that was for diddl, not Stinkle!

Yep! Get that too! I'd rather have a whinging parent that it's common sense, than a student who goes missing on the way home though...

No.
I,m in Germany, the home of "signed in triplicate", but do 't get this at all.
The kids just tell us what will be happening.
We do have to send a note in if it's OK for them to stay longer and make their own way home.

Mum7, bearing in mind that we don't know how far from the school this park was, nor how they got there, I think we can't say yet whether YABU or not.

The letter does seem rather vague. At my school the letter would have added "and students are expected to be collected/make their own way home from there." However, arrangements would also have been made to ensure that vulnerable children were dismissed appropriately - your dd does sound rather vulnerable. She wasn't with friends, she didn't know about the arrangements, which should have been discussed with her - although maybe quite reasonably she walked along with her peers until she discovered that they were being collected.

So yes, it would be good to encourage her to be more independent and get her a PAYG phone (although they may not have been allowed to take them to an open park, whilst doing sport, with no lockable changing rooms, or she may have run out of battery/cash - it happens) but YANBU if she is socially vulnerable or has any special needs.

And it doesn't take that long to sign them all off. Most trips at secondary are 1:10 or 15, so if you've organised your trip properly, you only have the 10 or so that you've been responsible to sign off to deal with.

I pride myself on giving myself the ones that can mostly go home on their own, so I don't have to hang about!

maybe at your school..My Dc school is a grammar school and has only a minority of DC in walking distance the rest coming in on buses or by parents car.It is absolutely the schools responsibility to ensure students are safely dispatched and they would certainly pick up on a first year hanging about uncollected 20 minutes after the end of school.It is a shame so many teachers imagine 'loco parentis ' does not apply to them

I think you have misunderstood 'loco parentis'. You'll notice that I explained I had worked in many schools and in a variety of roles - some were purely of a safeguarding and pastoral nature. By the first year of secondary schools most students are able to make short journeys alone and it is inappropriate to feel supervising adults are neglectful or deserve to feel 'shame' for being aware of this.

What you describe is a practical logistical solution for a bus-in school (the fact it is grammar is irrelevant, many of the schools I've known to need support with safeguarding are selective or independent as well as comprehensive - unless of course it's the rather innocent assumption that grammar schools in naice areas are more caring with better parents).
At secondary school, students are supervised during school hours - when they leave following afternoon bell, they cease to require an adult to supervise them. This is not the case for 'some' students and not others: it is the case for all or none. It is different from primary school (where if a child was not picked up the onus would be upon the school to wait) because they are older.
This is not neglectful. This is not a lack of awareness of loco parentis. This is the norm for that age group: if parents live further away or wish to protect their child further by collecting them the onus is on the parent to ensure this happens or on the child to ensure they get onto the school bus - not the teachers to hang around (because as I have mentioned, the child is older and can make short journeys alone).
Loco Parentis does not mean teachers should wait endlessly with a secondary school age child whatever sort of school they go to, unless their is a prior arrangement.

I don't think the OP is coming back

P.S YABU.

It's not every day but all off site stuff requires permission slips to be returned, no slips, no trip and pupils are checked out at the end before they can leave

I don't work there, it's the school my DD goes to.

I've had to return a slip to give permission for her to walk the 200 yards to do photography at our local beach. I've had to sign a slip to allow her to walk home from something in the park behind our house or she would have been taken back to school. You can see our house from the park, she comes in through our back garden gate

DH and I went to watch a theatre production that the school took part in. We were on the same coach home, DD even sat with us. Still had to sign the slips and have her checked out before she was allowed to leave

I think the lesson here is that you need to teach you DD how to handle herself in this sort of situation. It can't have been pleasant for your DD to be in an unfamiliar place and not sure what to do or who she could go to if anyone. This is where you'll have to decide on arrangements that suit your family, whether she is to find a way to contact you asap, or just make her way home, depending on where you live and her maturity.

I agree with all the other posters that YABU, and that 12yr olds can almost all make their own way home from school.

Does she have a mobile phone, how did she get home in the end?

...Oh and regarding the DD not knowing. And important thing for the OP to ascertain is whether her daughter genuinely was not told, or didn't listen.

Sometimes the "how come the other girls all knew and you didn't?" rule applies. Step 1: check she was there when everyone was briefed (if no SN which would mean extra support was needed). Step 2: did the rest of the class act one way and her another? If an 11 year old is not listening to briefings/information, that's a life skill she needs to pick up.
Unfortunately you do get 'dreamers' where it's seen as charming or the parent expects everyone to remember for them... great until they can't get to their exam on time, or turn up with the wrong kit or - in some extreme cases - struggle to manage their time/courses come 6th form.

Yabu. At 12 she should cope and you should have read the letter properly.

At 13 my school lost me in Germany and I managed to navigate public transport to arrive at my unfamiliar destination.

Actually, we do get letters telling us what will happen, and send back the slip to say that it has been received.
But stuff is also discussed in school.

I hope the OP comes back to answer the question so many of us have asked, i.e. 'How did she get home in the end?' She left a bit of a cliffhanger by ending her post with "In the park, she started panicking."

At our school, unless they are SEN, the children are trusted to know their own arrangments. Even year 7s have the sense to come back to reception (open til gone 6pm) if something has gone wrong (missed bus, nobody turned up etc) and they are reminded of this. We can then make phonecalls and even take children home if needed.

Its not just about caring, kitty, its also about independence and seeking help.

Exactly Stardusty. Exactly.

My school has 1400 kids in it. Our school has more than one exit. There is no possible way of ensuring they are all safely sent off at the end of the day.

Haunted, that's all very well, but things are very different now. How would '13 year old on school journey lost in Germany' mark on an Ofsted report these days? Or god forbid in the newspapers or national news?

My mum was a teacher. I remember vividly a trip with 11 year olds, where two boys got stranded on a rock at the beach when the tide came in. When we finally got them back in, they were very cold and very wet. My mum put them in a bed together and gave them a nip of brandy in a hot drink! This was about 1980 by the way!

You just can't afford to make any mistakes these days. You have to make it perfectly clear, in words of one syllable if necessary, what the plans are.

Whilst I think YUABU blaming the school. I think you are getting a hard time on here from all the posters saying that their kids get 2 buses to school by themselves etc. As for all the posters saying no high school children get picked up from school - around my area lots of the high school children get lifts to and from school. I can understand that if the park was in an area that your DD did not know, it would have been quite scary for her.

I'm surprised the school letter did not have a slip, that needed to be returned, otherwise how do they even know you got the letter in the first place. I have an older son who still forgets to give me letters.