To not understand UK Jihadists?

[Moolin]

I was going to post in the politics section but it looks completely deserted.

I am not trying to start any kind of row/bunfight/trouble.

I want to ask someone to explain a few things. There are aspects of Jihad I don't understand and nor does anyone else I've asked in RL.

How can UK born jihadists, who go to fight in Iraq (I'm thinking of Isis) or Syria, and kill civilians and Iraqi/Syrian nationals, justify what they are doing? Not that killing anyone else is any more justifiable in my eyes but I thought it was the West they deplored, not their fellow Muslims.

Also, If jihadists are killing Iraqi citizens in car bombings etc, how can they deplore the Western military for doing a similar?

Because they are religious loons.

They are murdering iraqis who they see as being implicit in the overthrowing of Saddam Hussein's regime and those who've tried to rebuild Iraq after the Allied invasion.

All in the name of God.

Collatoral damage? Plus I ISIS are sunnis so shias are an out group not with them even though they are all Muslims.

But how can they side with Saddam, who killed so many innocent Muslims, when they never had to live under his tyranny, they were relatively safe and comfortable in the West?

I really don't get it either.

These are well educated men raised the West - medical students? I really don't understand it at all. They have everything to live for. They could go to Syria or Iraq and use their education and skills to help people - instead it's more religious to go and kill people.

It's sectarianism, no different to Catholicism/Protestantism and the 30 years war.

So the ISIS jihad is more between sunni's and shia's than Islam and the west?

They've most likely been brainwashed, don't forget. They are targeted by radicals and conditioned to want to do this.

They are thinking of this as retribution for the Muslim lives lost during the conflict. They will see other Muslims as being complicit in these deaths. Word has it that the judge who sentenced Saddam to death has been murdered in the last few days.

They want Iraq returned to militants. They don't want a democracy, they don't want (by their standards) liberals running the show.

It's all very worrying. I'm afraid that it's going to get very nasty.

Id be more concerned if you did understand Jihadists. They are beyond the comprehension of right thinking people.

There is no logic to religious mania.

They are lads who want an excuse to go and fight in a war, to have a bit of excitement in their lives. Never mind the destruction they are causing.

Id be more concerned if you did understand Jihadists. They are beyond the comprehension of right thinking people.

There is no logic to religious mania

^ this x 100

I'm reading "ours are the streets", and although its a work of fiction - it has helped me to stop thinking of a highly organised collective but more a bunch of twenty something lads, fired up on idealism and injustice.

I haven't finished it yet but I'll doubt they'll be answers at the end of the story

Have you watched the documentary: My Brother The Terrorist?
Watch it, it is very interesting viewing.
An English (white) boy who grew up and turned to Jihad, the brother followed him around with a camera and interviewed his friends and mosque leaders. He is now in prison on terror charges.
Obviously they think what they are doing is right for their people, although very misplaced.

Syria and iraq are different. From what I understand syria was people revolting against assad.

Getting revenge for innocent Muslims being killed, by killing more innocent Muslims .

I don't understand how they can idealise a dictatorship, having never had to live under one, it's madness.

Because young men are idealists & want a cause that they can believe in totally & passionately & blindly. Couple that with any thuggish tendencies & they become violent extremists -- whether it's religious jihad or EDL style patriotism and racism. Those are just excuses to act out their violence, but the underlying need for a cause is huge & widespread.

DS is 14 & wrestling with how to be a patriot without being an extremist loon. We have some interesting discussions.

The middle east thing... WELL, British have a big slice of guilt though they had good intentions. Post collapse of Ottoman Empire (WW I era) the middle east was parcelled up into semi-arbitrary border countries depending on what kid of beneficial alliances Britain & the other victorious powers could arrange with new ruling powers. So the Alawites became rulers in place-that-became-Syria, the Jordanian monarchy got established & Qatar, or the Saudis in place-that-became-Saudi-Arabia prevailed because they had friendly relations with the British & Americans. The Saudis becoming rulers is hugely important because they became rich from oil & could promote worldwide Wa'hadi Islam which is a quite extreme interpretation of Islam and said to especially lend itself to Jihadi-ism. The idea that there should be separate countries at all in this region is still anathema to many Arab or Muslim minds. 100 yrs later, we reap the rewards.

I think they are groomed tbh.

Young black/asian/white with an accent teenagers get racist shit regularly. It effects how you think about your own identity. Of course it does. Add that to being unfortunate enough to meet older people who see a chance to use your anger to manipulate you...

That's my theory anyway, I am a 1st gen immigrant but grew up in the UK and struggled with my cultural identity as a teenager. I was definitely vulnerable at that stage and I'm glad I wasn't targeted in this way by anyone.

People who join any type of fanatical group or cult tend to be 'of a type.'

usually struggle to fit in, feel unaccepted, angry, unworthy, lack social skills, can't form personal/sexual relationships. etc.

And these organisations aren't daft - they prey on those types.

So what is the agenda of the people behind it? Do they tell the jihadists they enlist the truth?

I remember reading that the Saudi Arabian rulers where behind it. Then read somewhere else that it's not as big a crisis as the media is making out, that they are trying to fuel anti-Islamic sentiment. Confusing.

And does this mean the UK is is danger?

Is there anything we can do to remedy this?

What Nancy said. I always think of the term "angry young men" they are ripe for the picking and it just seems to be that some of them need a cause, it's just luck and situation whether that rage will turn to religious extremism, White power fanaticism, any of the other myriad causes or even looting the streets of London when given the chance.

The majority just turn to self destruction, drugs, crime, drink all down to fate and all as illogical.

Sad really :(

Oh and Jihad means struggle I hate it's been stolen for this purpose.

It's always been easy to recruit teenage/early-20s boys to fight for 'causes'.

Naivety, idealism, testosterone all at their peak and bursting to find an outlet.

But how can they side with Saddam, who killed so many innocent Muslims, when they never had to live under his tyranny, they were relatively safe and comfortable in the West?

Because the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I suppose young men with high levels of testosterone served a purpose in the distant past but it causes problems in civilised society where there is no obvious outlet for it.

Do you think the West ousted Saddam as they wanted more control over the region, rather than to 'save' innocent lives?