to think that I am not a scared ignoramus - Scotland

[iamnotacoward]

That's it really.
My FB feed, and real life conversations with people voting yes. So much aggression, and complete inability to accept that people have a different view point. So much talk of people being unpatriotic if they vote no, or that they just 'need to be educated' or need the facts explained to them so they can 'stop being scared' and vote yes.
I have educated myself, and yes I do fear for Scotland's future if a yes vote wins. That doesn't make me cowardly though, or someone who is too scared of change to vote yes.

I feel the same, I just refuse to discuss it now as I've been called all the names under the sun for wanting to vote No. When I have tried to discuss it none of the Yes voters can actually answer the questions I feel I need answered before I'd change my mind. I've actually read the White paper in full and I'm totally unconvinced by it and anything that has been issued since.

YANBU I feel exactly the same too.

Roll on September, the whole things feels interminable. People on both sides are just becoming more bitter and entrenched.

Yeah - it's like if you dare to post anything on FB or bring it up you are shouted down - such aggression! but they all seem to spend half their lives posting half truths and 'facts' about independence which I could pull apart in a matter of minutes if I had the energy - but I know I'd just get abuse!They can't answer any questions and just go on vaguely about 'hope over fear'.

My heart would say yes - Scotland the Brave, ceilidhs, tartan etc.

However, I've seen the paper, I've heard the debates and it would be a catastrophic failure in my opinion.

I've been lambasted by a few people for this viewpoint, but I don't care.

How do you think the vote will go? (English born and bred here!)

I'm not getting more bitter and entrenched squoosh, I'm getting more excited, optimistic and feel stronger conviction every day that controlling our own affairs is the right and the obvious thing to do.

I'm sorry you've found people on the Yes side to be aggressive, iamnot.

I don't believe independence has anything remotely to do with Scotland the Brave, ceilidhs or tartan.

This is why we have the secret ballot!

In 1992 the Conservatives won the election having lost the polls. It seems that many people voted for them having preferred not to say that they would even to an anonymous pollster. You may find that the same happens in September in Scotland and that the Yes vote is nothing like as big as the polls suggest.

Being aware of the possible negative consequences of doing something and therefore deciding not to do that thing is rational, not fearful.

ella I could have written your post myself - I could not agree more.

I think most of the polls have it too close to call if undecideds are taken out. I never trust polls though, so we'll see.

I am not sure beccajoh. The yes side are certainly louder and you see people everywhere with yes badges and car stickers. But people are afraid to have no stickers on their cars as they are torn off! All the polls suggest that no will win, but polls can be wrong, and I am nervous about it.

It makes me very sad. I identify as much with someone from Cornwall as I do with someone from Inverness. I hate this talk of 'our own affairs'. I am British first, and can't bear the thought of that being taken away from me. My country is Britain, not Scotland. And I am Scottish born and bred.

I didn't think Britain was a country, is it?
Your mistake is engaging in debate on Facebook. Think about it, how many people out of the population of Scotland eligible to vote are a) on Facebook and b) choose to engage in independence debate on Facebook. It's not representative of either position.

YANBU
I've come across so many aggressive Yes voters, and have been called all sorts of names because I believe in the Better Together campaign.
I too believe I'm British first - I am a British citizen with a British passport.

But because I was not born in this country apparently I "know nothing and should f*#$ off back to your own country" as some polite young man once told me

You may have educated yourself on the issues, OP but many prospective no voters have not.

A man I was canvassing this week actually said 'what referendum?'. It is scary that some people will vote without asking any questions.

Other 'reasons' I've heard people give for voting no have been-

• don't like Salmond

-don't like snp

• my (labour) msp told me to
• the papers say it's a bad idea
• abortion will become illegal

-don't want more immigration

• 'I'm too old for change'
• don't want to need a passport to go to England
• EU migrants scared they will be deported
• pensioners thinking their pensions will stop

-don't want the euro -the oil's about to run out

These are all obviously pretty ill informed reasons for voting.

Yes supporters who come up against this day after day do get frustrated.

Generally, and I do know there are exceptions, people who have weighed up both sides in a considered way tend to be/become yes supporters.

So it's only a human weakness to start making generalisations about the comparative ignorance of yes/no supporters.

Since there are less no campaigners out canvassing I don't think they as a group, understand this.

Honestly can't see this coming off. The company I work for has a Scottish Head Office and anyone I've discussed it with has stated they're voting No. The directors all think it's a Fucking Stupid Idea and that it'll be catastrophic for business. They do have a contingency plan though, which basically involves moving all bank accounts etc. to England.

Admittedly this is not a vast sample size, but you just need to look at the crap odds the bookies are offering on a No result (dammit!) to draw your own conclusions. Too many holes on that White Paper, too much "Auch, it'll be alreet" in respect of important topics like the armed forces, currency, membership of the EU.... You don't need the fucking Hubble Telescope to see what's coming.

'Generally, and I do know there are exceptions, people who have weighed up both sides in a considered way tend to be/become yes supporters.'

With all due respect I find that to be quite a patronising statement. And generally speaking people don't like being patronised.

I have a bumper sticker carefully designed to piss Yes voters off in a very Edinburgh sort of way:

'Proud to be Scots, Delighted to be United'

And it's stuck on the inside, so they can fuck off if they want to rip it off.

Haven't been keyed yet, but am getting tailgated a bit more

YANBU. I'm just refusing to express any sort of political position on fb but am so fed up of the constant stream of independence comment. It's not a "shame" that I'm "so scared" of independence. I just don't happen to agree that it is the best way forward.

For something that is supposed to unite a nation, it's causing an awful lot of nasty division.

Definitely more aggression from 'yes' voters - apparently you're not a real Scot if you vote no, or you're a closet Tory, or you're scared, or you're letting yourself be ruled by the English.....and all this despite absolutely no evidence to suggest that Scotland will be better off as an independent Scotland and governed by either Salmond/Lamont/Davidson/Rennie

Latest polls now show 53% against independence with only 36% for despite all the rhetoric, but polls can be wrong. I'm utterly sick of the whole thing - roll on September, fingers crossed for a no vote, and hopefully Salmond et al will fuck off to the far side of fuck forever. I'm a British Scot, always will be, and the fact that my national identity might be taken away makes me furious and sad in equal measures.

I think the scots will vote yes. marginally but still a yes. what will follow will be years of sorting out. not just the basics like whether they use the pound still or not but things like national sporting teams, funding streams etc. I still think that the whole of the UK should have had a vote on this as the whole of the UK are affected. I too wish the vote was tomorrow. it now just feels like pulling teeth with both sides saying "ahh well the reason you disagree with me is because you don't understand" all those wanting an in/out eu referendum would be well to remember this one. has certainly made me think.

Generally, and I do know there are exceptions, people who have weighed up both sides in a considered way tend to be/become yes supporters

That's interesting - most people I know who have weighed up both sides in a considered way tend to think the yes voters and the SNP are deluded.

Sorry for being a thicko but is voting yes a vote for or against independence?

'Yes' is for independence.