to think that I am not a scared ignoramus - Scotland

[iamnotacoward]

That's it really.
My FB feed, and real life conversations with people voting yes. So much aggression, and complete inability to accept that people have a different view point. So much talk of people being unpatriotic if they vote no, or that they just 'need to be educated' or need the facts explained to them so they can 'stop being scared' and vote yes.
I have educated myself, and yes I do fear for Scotland's future if a yes vote wins. That doesn't make me cowardly though, or someone who is too scared of change to vote yes.

A shit one chelsy. Nothing gets on my tits more than apathy with stuff like this. The same people inevitably are the first to complain when decisions are made by the elected representatives which they don't like- see Belfast's flag protests.

A Scottish colleague has already stayed that he won't be voting because he's never voted before and he doesn't want to break his 'streak'. I don't agree with the Yes camp, but I find his position even harder to understand (although it obviously is his right not to vote).

I think that if anyone is the slightest bit unconvinced about the aggression of the yes campaign they should have a quick look at what they called Claire Lally and J K Rowling online. Buzzfeed have done a roundup of the particularly pleasant J K tweets. I'm not convinced by the arguments for independence but I can't bring myself to vote for people who to all intents and purposes act like school bullies.

Precisely Chelsy - which is why the SNP had better be very, very sure of their facts. England and the rest of the world is not so far away - unless the rhetoric can be turned into fact, and unless those facts demonstrate clearly that we really will be better as an independent country then people and finances will very quickly leave.

That's an interesting one, while we don't have compulsion to vote in the UK, I've never seen it as being a "right" not to vote. The right is to vote, not doing so is not, in some way, exercising a right. To mark an objection he could go and spoil his ballot paper.

Deborah Orr wrote a very good article in last Saturday's Guardian about good reasons for a 'yes' vote. I do believe that we could govern ourselves successfully. I don't think an independent Scotland would be some magical utopia but I do feel there is no reason why we should have decisions made on our behalf in London. We are different countries and we have voted differently for many years.

But you would never get me voting for Salmond or the SNP, though I will vote yes. I despise nationalism, whether Scottish, English, British or other. I find the idea of being 'proud' to be a certain nationality, when that's a total accident of birth, not anything you achieved, is pathetic.

I have seen abusive behaviour from both the yes and no camps on social media. More from the yes side, tbh, but those individuals don't speak for anyone but themselves.

I'm not eligible to vote, but I am very interested in the outcome so I have read the White Paper.

It's only a wish list because it says what the SNP would like to happen rather than what would actually result from a Yes vote.

They say there will be a currency union, which has already been refused by Westminster.

They say they will remain in the EU, which is by no means certain and would anyway need a painful negotiation.

And somehow they will spend more while taking less tax, which would need a miracle.

I really hope the Scottish people have more sense.

I live in the south of England. The news coverage we see on the BBC etc has been pretty quiet about this campaign. However, I have relatives in Scotland who came to visit and the way that they have had the 'facts' presented to them have been very different to the way we have seen it. I was still under the impression that no way is Scotland going to be allowed to have the pound. All three parties have agreed and so has the bank of England. However, My relatives are convinced that Alex Salmond has disproven this, along with a number of other 'facts'. They are firm 'no' voters. Any thoughts.?

Corey - just out of curiosity, who do you trust to lead Scotland through the difficult post-referendum years (if not Alex Salmond)? Lamont? Davidson? Rennie?

I'm struggling to imagine any of them rising to that challenge, and standing on the international stage with the real heavyweights. The words "may Go have mercy on our souls" spring to mind.

Midsummer - we can certainly have the pound. What we won't be having is a currency union. Quite why Alex would want to have a currency union with a country we've just left is bemusing - there are hints of the teenage boy not quite ready to cut the apron strings because he knows Mum and Dad provide a warm bed and food.

Well he has the right to choose whether he wants to vote or not- the fact that no-one is going to frogmarch anyone to a polling station would suggest that he has the right to exercise his choice not to vote. That's grand, I just don't understand it. It isn't like a general election where you get to revise your choice in five years' time, this is forever.

Spoiling wouldn't do- he doesn't want to take any part in it, and that includes even having a whiff of a ballot paper. Very sensible individual in all other respects, makes it even more unnerving.

It's a lovely idea and my heart says "why not"; my head on the other hand says "it is too much of a risk; failure would be catastrophic" . My opinion is if it ain't broke why 'fix' it?

I like the Better Together slogan I saw in town on Saturday Best of Both Worlds which recognises the strength we have in being united plus the continuing devolution changes which are ongoing and will transfer more powers to Scotland.

Additionally, my DH (who is a self-employed contractor in chemcials) was finished up two months ago. Agencies say that companies are holding off from starting new projects until after the vote in September. He has been offered a total of 12 days work in those two months.

I have visited both Yes and No campaign stands in my local town and been given leaflets to read. The Yes campaign reads like a fairy tale, sadly. Lots of dreams and assumptions. I am not, repeat not, risking our country's future (and my children's future) on dreams and fairy tales. I.WANT.EVIDENCE! I.WANT.PROOF!

Well said tabby
It would be a huge leap in the dark.
If it all goes wrong, Salmond can simply retire and blame the English. But the next generation will have to pick up the pieces.

Chelsy, of course people educate themselves. There is no national list of sources that are compulsory to access before you are allowed to vote in this referendum so people choose what they want to make themselves aware of and synthesize it in their own way.

As to the majority of a minority vote steering the country to independence, there is a precedent from the 1970s devolution referendum where this very thing happened and it was ruled that devolution should not happen as a majority of voters had either voted no or hadn't voted at all.

This is why some Yes supporters, and I count myself among them, are more interested in getting people to vote at all rather than trying to get them to vote Yes. Like other people on this thread I am concerned about what will happen after the vote and raising a high percentage of the vote makes it lot harder for hardline nuts on either side to form an agenda for ongoing strife.

It is highly frustrating that ... people are thinking about voting No because they think ... we won't be able to travel or a million other mad reasons that I've heard.

The 'travel' issue is that if Scotland becomes independent, we will not initially be part of any existing 'club' such as the EU or the countries which have signed up to the Schengen agreement. Therefore any travel between Scotland and any EU country eg rUK, would be subject to obtaining appropriate visas.

If an independent Scotland successfully applies to become a member of the EU, it is mandatory that new members adopt the euro and sign up to the Schengen agreement. That's what would make it necessary to have passport control at the border between England and Scotland.

An application to join the EU has to be unanimously agreed by all existing members: this is not a given, especially since Spain does not want to set a precedent, and in any event these things take time. The Yes campaign tends to ignore this issue.

Of course, if you don't ever need to travel outwith Scotland, then there is no problem.

As Scottish people would/could still have British passports, it would be a pretty quick checkpoint to go through.

Why have any checkpoints? Why put up barriers?

Yes Sallyingforth the next generation that 'Wee Eck' managed to bring into the vote. So when it goes t**s up it will have been their choice. A clever politician - maybe! A dangerous one - definitely !

I'm voting no, but I am trying to avoid conversations about it as I find the Yes attitude daft.

Just had a quick skim of the yes page.
"Couldnt care less if it takes ten year o poverty to become a wealthy nation in our own right. I would gladly pay more tax to a SCOTTISH government to have the right to be a free independant country..... Wotever the price... freedom is priceless"
Fairly indicative of the yes mindset for me - frightening.

I think Patrick Harvie would do a good job, SirChenjin.

Someone posted this earlier today. They are like five-year olds.

The sad and terrifying thing is that a lot of people believe this sort of stuff . Never mind the yellow brick road , they are all going up the tartan road !

Wow, iam, it's all quite Soviet isn't it.