To think it would benefit my 2 sons if their grandad's house didn't have to be sold in the future for care home fees

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We have 2 sons (aged 16 and 18). Everyone knows about the dire prospects of any teenagers today ever getting on the property ladder. My sons have always been close to their paternal grandparents. Grandmother died 4 years ago after having Alzheimer's for 7 years. She ended up in a home for last 6 months as my father in law looked after her at home.

He is now 81 and has been diagnosed with dementia. We own our house outright. My husband has one brother who is married, nearly 5o with no children. He owns 2 houses outright, one which he rents out.

We save extremely hard for our future and hopefully house deposits for our sons but the outlook is very bleak from reading the papers/watching the news and I find the outlook for their future very depressing - will they be living with us until they are 40

After the diagnosis my brother in law said he thought it would be a good idea to get his dad's bank balance down as he has nearly £90,000 in the bank. He and my husband withdrew £3,000 each a few months ago with my father in law's approval But I think it is too late for this to make any difference to any possible future care needs. Even if it was reduced to under £23,000 which I understand is the threshold limit for contributing towards your care, the care home would say the house had to be sold.

I am sure my father in law would like to see his only grandchildren live in the house when he passes away, rather than it being sold for care home fees. My brother in law has no children to worry about, has a brilliant final salary pension and a very large bank balance.

I don't know why he came up with the idea to start reducing the bank balance when it will make no difference to his dad having to fund his care if the time comes. No more money has been withdrawn yet but my husband is burying his head in the sand over this and is just agreeing with his older brother.

I do not want a penny from any estate, I would just love to see our sons get a helping hand for the future but this would be via us as the will is 50/50 between my husband and his brother.

I am a very positive person and don't get depressed about much but I feel utter despair at the housing prospects for today's teenagers.

Please tell me if I am being out of order .

Wow. So, SO unreasonable.

So firstly, you apparently don't think your BIL should get any of his father's estate because he doesn't have any children. Are you serious? Aside from the fact that that could change, your FIL has TWO sons, one's life choices don't trump the other's.

Second, if you are so desperate for your sons to live in this house, why don't you legitimately buy it off your FIL with a mortgage and pay that?

Thirdly, maybe your sons want to live their own life and move away?

Forthly, if they can't afford to buy, then they will have to rent, like most other people their age.

Fifth, you seriously think the taxpayer should find your FIL's care when he (and his two sons) have more than enough money to pay for it himself.

YABSoU I don't even know where to start.

Really unattractive.

Older adults social worker here.

I am concerned about your DH and his brother making the decision to 'get the bank balance down' as it is unclear whether your FIL has agreed to this and has the capacity to agree to this particular decisions. A financial assessment done by social services requests bank statements. If you refuse, it will be assumed it's because you have something to hide and care will not be funded. If you've been emptying his bank balance, the financial team will flag it up as a concern, especially if there are issues of capacity around financial decisions.

Those like WooWoo who think the 'state' should pay for everyone's care make me laugh. Oh to be so ignorant of what is happening in central and local governments at the moment. The population is getting older, the pressure on services to provide care and support for older people is increasing. We don't just want to fund care and support, we want to fund good care and support. I'm sure I'll be told that "I pay taxes", well the average Joe does not pay in that much in comparison to what they take out. I don't think most people have the tiniest clue about what it costs to provide care for older people, let alone specialist care. It's not just care home fees; it's social workers, assessment and enablement officers, Best Interests Assessors, Approved Mental Health Practitioners and more. The costs are snowballing. Social work teams are expanding and expanding, desperately trying to cope with increasingly caseloads. Employing and training us costs money too. There is so much more to this that meets the eye,

candyciatedwaterdrops that is exactly right.

On a personal note, I find it so crass that some people see a relative's money as "their inheritance".

My father paid high rate tax most of his life. He was also promised cradle to grave care and was encouraged to invest in his family by previous governments. In his 80s now and signed everything over to us when in his 50s so now uses his pension and taxpayer money to pay for his care. I mean his private pension not the state one although that also goes towards it. He also had Bupa forever since and has not used the NHS since the early 70s. I think that is fair.

I agree candycoatedwaterdrop and was brought up to think like that - however in RL I've been amzazed at how many people do seem to have that attitude.

Sorry I haven't read the full thread, but why do you think he shouldn't have to pay care home fees? Who should pay if not him? Me? If you want to preserve his house then look after him in it yourself. Or pay yourself for someone else to look after him. Or use his savings to pay for care in his own home. But don't ask the state to fund care for anyone unless they are genuinely broke. He isn't.

agree candy for all we know the op's inheritance is willed to a charity anyway.

I never assume that I will receice an inheritance, I might have to pay for my parent's care (the law in their country).

Am I on a different planet? You all own your homes outright and FIL has £90,000 in the bank? And you're scared for your sons' futures? Really??

OP if you so desperate for your sons to buy a property when they are older, sell your house and buy a tiny flat in a cheap area and give them the proceeds. Or give them your home.

Can I have some advice here please to anyone who has the knowledge.

I look after my mothers affairs and have power of attorney. She is still sharp minded and signs her own cheques etc.
Each year she likes to give our family about £500 divided for birthdays and Christmas. I also buy her clothes and spend about£20 a week on nice food and toiletries etc. Then she has daily newspaper,hairdressing and chiropodist. So there are a few cheques coming out of her account .
I feel worried now that I may be accused of depriving assets .
But surely she can spend some of her capital on small gifts and nice things?
My mother also helps us with car tax and insurance as we struggle to run car without it. It feels ok with me because it would be hard to visit without car .

Theodorous In 1944, people did not live as long. Bevan could never have predicted the massive changes in health care.

Am I on a different planet? You all own your homes outright and FIL has £90,000 in the bank? And you're scared for your sons' futures? Really??

Well-said, natwebb.

Care homes is the business to be in.

I know a care home owner, he plays polo, brings his own team all the way from south america every summer to England to play.
Has 4 children all in private school, etc.

Yes, I would rather my parent's money went on my own children than to the pockets of a care home owner to fund his lavish life.

Basest fleet has POA been registered?

Either way you should read up more about it, it's all there on the gov website.

You need to be reasonable but account for everything, so make a record of what is spent on what.

If you're that worried about your sons getting a foot on the housing ladder, sell your home, split it with your sons and go and live with them. Much niacer than robbing an old and vulnerable man/the taxpayer - because that's what this 'draining' of his bank account is.

I'd be having a few sleepless nights over that 6k and get it back in the account ASAP personally.

My understanding of Deprivation of Assets is that SS can go back any length of time, not just 7 years. Once a diagnosis of Dementia is given there is a reasonable expectation that care in the future might be required and money can't just be taken from his account .

If there is a financial POA in place then the Attorney can make gifts to family members on the Donor's behalf but there are strict guidelines regarding that and it is advisable to run things through the OPG.

On the Alzheimers Society boards there are a fair few posts on Deprivation of Assets and I remember one where a lady had to go for a police interview.

My Mother isn't too pleased about her house being sold to pay Care Home fees but it has been and it has given her choice as to where she is that she wouldn't have had if she was funded by SS. She said she wanted to give her house to myself and my Brother. We had to explain she couldn't do this and to think as the money as her Care Pot so she can get the care she needs.

I presume, Timetoask, that you will be taking care of your aged p's yourself, when the time comes?

Mil and fil are 90 years old and in a nursing home. Dementia is not life-limiting. Alzheimers, a specific sort of dementia, is but with the usual senile dementia people can trundle on for years. Mil doesn't know whether it's Christmas or Easter, who anyone is, but has a really healthy appetite and fought off pneumonia recently. Doctors have said that physically, she is as strong as an ox.

Never, ever take a dementia sufferer into your own home/go and care for them without very serious thought. Years of your life could pass and they march on, doubly incontinent, keeping random hours (dementia sufferers lose the concept of day and night) and needing constant care.

When mil was diagnosed with dementia, it was very difficult as she held all her and fil's money; even the house was in her name. He had nowt. Legally, no money can be moved if a person has "lost capacity". [Luckily a tame doctor declared mil ok long enough to move half her money over to fil. Even so, bil was furious and said we were breaking the law, even if it was in a good and rightful cause.]

Thanks unrealhousewife POA is registered. I do keep records but just in a notebook .
I am buying her nice food etc because she won't eat the meals in the home ......but doesn't want to move either. I just feel it is so sad that buying her bits and bobs and yes the family getting £500 divided between them each year could be seen as Deprivation of Assets .
Appreciate your reply .

"Yes, I would rather my parent's money went on my own children than to the pockets of a care home owner to fund his lavish life."

Wouldn't we all? The same could be said about lining the pockets of Johnny Boden, Sainsbury's CEO, Ford's MD or whatever. But in the real world, you want something, you earn it and you pay for it.

I'd rather mymoney went on my children than in the pocket of a landlord or a mortgage company. Should I jack in my job and claim benefits so that I don't have to pay for my accommodation? Should I just take the jumper off M&S's shelves rather than pay for it so I can give the cash in my purse to my DC?

Or would you call that benefit abuse, bone idleness, fraud and theft?

So someone on the min wage should be paying his care home fees instead?

There was an article in The. Sunday times on 11 May - it might be of use to you. If he has severe dementia and is sectioned his care may be free.

"The section 117 aftercare rule requires councils to provide free care home funding for patients who are sectioned — compulsorily detained — under section 3 of the Mental Health Act 1983.

In 2012/2013 8,968 people over the age of 65 were sectioned under the act in England, according to the Health and Social Care Information Centre. At least half of these were estimated to be sectioned as a result of severe dementia."

SmallPress: they don't live in the UK. Where I come from home help is much cheaper and easier to get than here in the UK.

hoobypickypicky I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Perfectly put.