To have gone to ds when he was upset? Dh thinks so....

[Tory79]

To the extent that he's not speaking to me!

So dh took ds (2.8) up for his bath and bed last night. Ds was overtired I think, and for whatever reason, bath time quickly descended in to a hysterical screaming fit on the part of ds, typical toddler issues of want to get in bath/dont want to get in bath etc etc but from downstairs I could ds doing those horrible chokey sobs, despite dhs best efforts to calm him. So I went upstairs, poked my head round the bathroom door and dh asked me to go away and let him handle it - I went back downstairs.

A few minutes later ds could be heard wailing for me at the top of the stairs, clearly no calmer and really wanting mummy. So I went back up, ave him a cuddle and stayed up there for about 5m until he was calmer, then I went back downstairs and dh finished putting him to bed. When he came down he was clearly annoyed and we spent the rest of the evening in silence. The same thing happened about 4 weeks ago as well.

So, I think I was not being unreasonable to have gone to ds, on the basis that Ds has no problem with dh putting him to bed, they normally have a whale of a time. It's not like we have a problem to fix iykwim. Ds was just overtired, and to be frank I'm better at calming him down than dh is - if I'd not gone up dh would probably have ended up getting cross and putting ds to bed still upset.
Or was I being unreasonable because dh wanted me to let him deal with it?

But there will be times when you can't be there. Next time it will be harder. Your DH was dealing with it and didn't want you there. By going and interfering anyway you were saying to him that he wasn't coping - you've upset him and you're minimising the upset you caused him.

Children cry. They get over it. Next time your DH will feel less confident, he's a parent as well and deserves respect.

And if baby wants Mummy when she's in labour or breast feeding new baby?

Well labour isn't going to be a daily occurrence and it's very easy to be available for a cuddle while BFing. Anyway the OP has demonstarted that she can differentiate between want and need. Her DS needed her to help him calm down. He wasn't making demands.

OP, you need to help your DH see parenting as teamwork in which you support each other and use the other person's skills as a resource.

A new person entering a situation can be a distraction and break repetitive behaviour patterns. They can be a source of ideas and someone to offer a different perspective. These are all positive.

Going to see if you can help in itself isn't undermining. It is only undermining if the child sees the second parent overruling decisions made by the first. This didn't happen.

What you did may have dented his ego a little but that is a problem with his perception of your roles as parents, not your actions, and possibly the emotions stemming from his previous parenting experiences but triggered by this situation.

As a father, I am torn on this one. On the one hand, a child should be equally happy with either parent. On the other hand, they do go through both 'Mummy' and 'Daddy' phases and, if they get beyond a certain stage of temper tantrum, why not take the easy way out?

From both parents' perspectives it is annoying when you are doing your best to control a situation to have the other parent wading in and instantly soothing one's child. It also (potentially) does give too much power to a child to manipulate his/her parents.

So, I don't know really.....I guess ideally it shouldn't happen but, in real life, it will sometimes, and there is no point in getting too upset over it (easier said than done).

I'm afraid I'd rather have my adult dh upset at me than have my ds howling for me and not go to him when I can. I guess if that makes me a bad wife or mother in some way then so be it!

I know I can't be with him all the time, and indeed I'm often not, but as I say, I don't see that as a reason to never go to him when I can.

It isn't to do with one up man ship, or hurt feelings in the adult, it is to do with an action that was very destructive to the child's relationship with BOTH parents.

The DH was dealing with it rider, but there was no resolution as the child was asking for it's mothers comfort. I still don't get why the parents feelings out trump the child's. The child was distressed and was letting the parent know what will help comfort them, it was being undermined and ignored. The child deserved respect too and the u
Set of the child was bing minimised by the other parents ego to "deal with it" or "having it under control" it just seemed very unnecessary ton
Or long the child distress when there was no real reason a quick hug with mum before or after the bath would help.

So many of you speak about small children as though they're the enemy, "manipulate, play off, get one over on". Bizarre .

I'm not with my children's father anymore but one thing we never argued over was who should get to comfort upset children, whichever parent they wanted they got, it was usually me when very small but it definitely evened out as they got older.

I think if you believe that your children are deliberately setting out to undermine and manipulate you, you cannot be surprised if you grow up not trusting each other because you are essentially treating them as untrustworthy. You're introducing motives and negative emotions into your relationship that don't need to be there.

Personally I like to think the best of my kids and so far aged 7 and 11 I have not often been proved wrong.

YANBU OP and your DH is being a big sulky baby and behaving far worse than his TODDLER.

I disagree it's destructive to the child. I can't see why it would be. On the other hand withholding comfort is far more damaging.

Argh predictive text

Nicki,

I think small children are manipulative. They seek attention as it is the only thing they can control and it is what they are genetically programmed to do. Upbringing incentivises them to behave more rationally and socially.

It is not a lack of trust. They are little and don't know better.

What if he wants Mummy when she's in labour or breast feeding?

Well he won't be able to have her will he? A naturally occurring situation and exactly how children are supposed to learn. Certainly preferable to created and unnecessary ones because "He's Got To Learn!"

YANBU

Your DH should grow up and stop sulking because you didn't do what he wanted. I'd be pretty angry with my DH for being pissy about this and rather have our DS sobbing than to just let me comfort him.

There'll be times when your DS wants your DH over you, will he refuse to come when he's sobbing and asking for daddy? Bet he wouldn't.

I don't agree that the word "manipulative" as it is being used on this thread is a suitable description of this kind of behaviour in a toddler. Certainly they are doing their best to survive and I would agree that there are behaviours they display that will maximise their chances of doing so, but it isn't negative, in the way it is being described here.

Nicki,

They are not contradictory. All extremes are bad. Never giving in to a child is cruel, regardless of their need. Always giving a child what they want when they want it is also cruel in a different way (and creates huge problems for teachers and classmates later). What do you do if your child wants a particular meal when you have decided to cook something else? Do you give in because they want it? The parent situation is actually somewhat similar (IMO). They want both parents running rings around them. What they have here is one parent willing and happily attending to their needs. Is it wrong to tell them that the option is Daddy or no one?

The reality is that all good parents use discretion depending on the mood of the child, the time of day etc.

My dd aged 8 wanted something ordered on the internet a few weeks ago, I was already on the site and offered to do it, she suggested she would rather do it with daddy. I suspect this is because she would just rather he did it because he is better than I am at ordering online, in her eyes. Should I have felt undermined and insisted on daddy not doing it. She certainly wasn't playing one off on the other. She was just expressing a preference. However when she had a splinter she wouldn't let daddy near it and asked me to deal with it. But as an 8 year old has far better communication skills than a 2 year old it was a far smother transaction. But I think it's no different than the child's preference in the OP.

I think your dh needs reassurance personally - it was upsetting to him that ds wanted you and he wasn't enough, dh works a lot and it bothers him that he sees dd so little - obviously they're grown ups but you should be a bit more understanding especially given his history. Dh would feel undermined in that situation and I've done what you did - tough call really, better to let it being you together than be a fight.

Christ alive people, he's a two & a half year old, not Machiavelli.

OP YANBU, you are allowed to cuddle your wee upset child if he wants it. He wasn't being disciplined as far as I can see, so I really don't understand the accusations of 'undermining'.

I think in this instance Dad was entirely ignoring the needs of his child and I don't think this can be justified as a parenting choice. He wasn't using his discretion he was getting the raging hump because on this particular night, things weren't going his way with ds. When was the last time it happened? Four weeks ago? Hardly really problematic bad behaviour from ds. It's not the same as me choosing what to cook for dinner, although I have to say I generally ask my children what they want because I think we should all get some input (they make surprisingly good choices btw, perhaps because they've had lots of practise?)

I agree that discretion should be used depending in various factors but IMO Dad wasn't doing this, he was bull dozing over a very upset, overtired child. I should imagine most of us would have a tantrum if forced into the bath when overtired and then being told we couldn't speak to the person that might make us feel better.

Nicki,

I imagine you are going to tell me they are saints at school, too, and cope fine in an environment where their choices are far more circumscribed? Well, maybe that is the case for your children (as, like most of us, you probably exaggerate reality to suit your argument) but, what you are describing, is a recipe for entitlement.

Of course children should have some input at appropriate times. However, it is not unreasonable to impose some rules (have a bath at night, go to bed at bedtime etc). One of their needs is that appropriate boundaries are drawn and enforced.

Equating children to adults is futile in this kind of debate. I would be extremely annoyed if someone told me to go to bed at a particular time. However, from having had this imposed on me from childhood (and my own experiences), I know I need a certain amount of sleep.

I really don't see, as you weren't there, how you can be so judgmental about the OP's husband. He was enforcing a bedtime routine and the child wasn't having it. It happens. I imagine the OP's husband was then going to cuddle his child and do a bedtime story (or whatever routine they have). That, to me, is entirely meeting the child's needs. Wants and needs are not the same thing.

My ds has autism and is home educated as he was assaulted and injured quite badly, school was a nightmare actually. Dd is doing well at mainstream school though, yes.

I don't equate children to adults at all but I will never under this need that many parents seem to have to create situations because children "Must Learn". They'll learn soon enough from natural consequences, which come along with monotonous regularity as we all know.

Of course (most) children need a routine but in this instance, IMO, Dad was forcing his will on his toddler, Mum could have been allowed to comfort, everyone quiet and happy. I think many parents seem to think that a one off episode of challenging behaviour (as this was) must be stamped on, just in case it's the start of a downward spiral and they do it far too harshly.

I agree with larrygrylls.

I should say that I certainly dont think dh was doing anything 'wrong'. He was quite calm himself when I went up, and obviously doing his best to calm ds down. So I don't think he was consciously trying to ignore what ds wanted or anything like that. Ds adores his dad and they normally have a fabulous bath time.

However, I genuinely do believe, and this is no slight to dhs parenting as I am with ds all the time an he is not, that it is easier for me to tell when ds has passed the point of no return and just needs some help which in this case came in the form of a cuddle with me.

But always giving into them vs never giving into them isn't the choice that most parents make. That's too extreme and it's not realistic. Everyone gives in sometimes and doesn't at others, that's normal - the degree and the everyday struggle, is when is it okay to give them what they want, and when isn't it? You have to ascribe your own conditions to that.

For me they get what they want if it is reasonable to some kind of logic base. So no I wouldn't cook a whole new dinner, but if I hadn't started cooking yet and I could cook that dinner tomorrow (ie the food's not on the edge of spoiling), then why not? Likewise they ask for the blue cup but then change their mind and insist on the green cup, sure, but I'm not going to go back and forth to the cupboard 10 times cycling through every colour of the rainbow, and I'm not dirtying another cup just on a whim. And if two or more children are disagreeing about something which is impossible to do both at once then as the adult sometimes you have to pull rank and make the decision, or enforce a compromise.

Some people have other rules, like, if they had decided to make a particular dinner then their rule might be nope, sorry, I'm cooking therefore I decide and that's that. Or some people have a rule that the first hint of whining/crying/tantrumming means no straight away. That's a more reasonable comparison, than the mythical parent who always/never gives in.

At around what age do babies develop the ability to manipulate Larry?