To think not being able to drive puts you at a disadvantage?

[Sparklingbrook]

Just been chatting to a friend. Her daughter is 17 and although they can afford for her to have lessons, and she is able to she isn't going to bother learning to drive.

I was thinking about all the things I wouldn't have been able to do if I couldn't drive. For a start DS1 wouldn't be at the school he is, and the jobs I had I couldn't have got to by public transport.

I know she could learn in the future but surely it's easier to do it when young and a bit fearless?

I know it's none of my business too, but I hope my two DSs will be able to learn when the time comes.

I remember when i was made redundant and lived outside a city and had poor transport links, when i would go to sign on the advisors would often say 'have you thought about learning to drive?' ummmm yeah on £70 odd quid a week when the lessons are £25 each . But almost all of the jobs would have required a license/car.

I think it depends on your circumstances. I'm 34, no kids, DP has a driving licence but we don't have a car, we live in London so obviously public transport is not a problem. The only thing we would use a car for is a weekly grocery shop and an occasional weekend away. So I have no motivation to get my licence.

My best mate on the other hand, lives just outside London, has a 2 year old, her husband has a car but she has no licence and I think she needs her head examined. For the last year she has been doing the nursery drop offs and pick ups which involved 12 hour days for her and little one, and carrying a rapidly growing toddler in a sling for an hour each way. Madness.

Also very much agree that quite a few women on the Relationships board would find it much easier to get out of abusive situations if they were able to drive.

It is a pain when several extended family members can't/won't drive. Not only do they need lifts but it means many other chores fall to the few drivers. I don't know how they feel about it but you can guess how I do.

I think that having a licence can/should be separated from necessarily leading to more cars on the road. My DH and I share a car. But car clubs, car hire and van hire are all possible with a licence.

Learning youngish seems the best idea, before it becomes something you should already have done. Less pressure.

I passed my test years ago, so I hold a license. However, I very rarely drive. I have no need to, public transport around my area is fab, I have all day to day amenities close to home.
We have a car, but my husband commutes 20+ miles a day to school in a semi- rural community (public transport takes 2.5 hours).
I don't use it in the evenings, as it's easier to use public transport/walk etc. I have more of less never needed to drive, always lived in an urban area.

However I'm on mat leave at the minute, and when I go back I will have to share the nursery & school run with my husband. I tried out my new commute on foot the other day, I walked from home toDD1's new school and then caught the train to work.
It took me 1.5 hours to do what would be a 20min journey in a car! We will need a second car in a few months, especially when the weather turns.
I am glad I passed my test before as it means I won't have to learn under any pressure and my insurance will be lower. (May need a few refresher lessons).

Long post, but I do think you should learn even if you have no intention of getting a car. It is a life skill, and best to have it under your belt as you never know what the future holds.

It is a life skill, and best to have it under your belt as you never know what the future holds.

^this probably sums up how I feel. Keep your options open so to speak.

I feel driving is a useful skill. Even if you do not own a car, you are still able to drive one as and when the needed arises.

I know a few couples where the female cannot or refuses to drive. The husband/partner is forced to drive everywhere rather than share the journey. That would seriously bug me.

I am independent and being a non driver can sometimes make you reliant on family/friends for lifts home.

This may sound sexist/old fashioned but I am when I meet men over 20 that cannot drive as in if you put them in front of a steering wheel, they would not have a clue. It just seems wrong.

If you'd asked me 15 months ago, I'd have argued against the OP. Until then I'd lived my whole adult life in London, and not being able to drive had never been an issue. The majority of my friends who did have licences didn't own cars, so hardly ever drove anyway; DH passed his test as a teen then didn't get behind the wheel for the next 10 years! It never limited my employment opportunities. We preferred city breaks for holiday destinations anyway, so would fly to Berlin or Barcelona or Vienna then walk or use the buses and trains like we would at home. I was proud of my ability to negotiate public transport and walk several miles quickly without moaning.

Then we moved to the USA, to one of the most car-dependent cities in the country. And yes, NOW I wish I'd learned years ago! I've managed the best I can for a year with 2 small children in tow, but walking is often hazardous and unpleasant due to lack of pavements and extreme weather, and the public transport is pretty rubbish. I hate asking DH to ferry me around. So, when DS starts preschool in August I'm going to learn. I'm terrified, mostly by the idea of driving my tiny and precious children around by myself, which wouldn't have been an issue when I was 18.

I have to say that I feel I'm becoming part of the problem though, rather than the solution. Living here had given me an insight into the extreme end of car-dependency and it's not pretty: sprawling strip malls and developments surrounded by vast car parks; entire suburbs built without sidewalks, so the residents can't even walk safely to their neighbors house and children are driven absolutely everywhere. The obesity rates are appalling because no one walks anywhere, even a few blocks. I've had some depressing conversations with people on buses (bus passengers are VERY talkative here!) who cannot drive due to disability or poverty and their lives are truly limited by having to rely on underfunded and unreliable public transport.

I know that not every city can be or wants to be London or Berlin or Chicago, but I think providing the infrastructure so that driving is not so essential to so many people should be a priority. Which was not the question the OP was posing, I know

I didn't bother learning to drive a car when I was 17, as I had a moped, which was very cheap to run, and I wanted to spend my money on other things. I learnt later on, when I had enough money to fund buying a car and paying my insurance as well. I do think that driving is a life skill, and being able to drive does make life a lot easier.

However, I do think learning to drive now is a lot scarier/harder than it was in the past. There is a lot more traffic on the roads now, and the tests are harder than they were. I don't think all 17 year olds are fearless, either, although of course a lot are. I don't have great spacial awareness, and worried about damaging other people's property for example, or what would happen if the car broke down in the middle of nowhere.

I don't think I really became a confident driver until months after passing my test. Also, as I didn't learn when I was 17, I was never in the position of driving a car full of non-driving friends, which I think can get a bit scary.

Maybe she isn't fearless, and would rather wait until she is a bit older?

I don't drive. DH will never be able to as his coordination is fucked (due to physical abuse - head injuries), I possibly could one day but ATM due to an illness I get too dizzy and it wouldn't be safe. Which was particularly ironic as for a year I actually got higher mobility DLA and could've used the Motability scheme. But oh well.

It has been annoying and restrictive in some senses, particularly when DH had been out of work and was struggling to find something that didn't need a driving licence.

However in terms of day to day stuff public transport is absolutely fine. Of course it totally depends where you live. The town I live in has excellent (IMO) public transport, I work in the centre of town and DH works the other side so he either gets two buses or walks. Main line station very near. Loads of places accessible with public transport - it takes longer but it's dead cheap and gives us more exercise (which I really need now I'm recovering from long term illness).

I gratefully accept the odd lift if offered but never expect or ask for it. We will usually walk or get public transport or a taxi occasionally. Days out are planned on public transport - the journey is half the fun for my DCs - and food shopping is done online (I think I'd still do that if we had a car TBH)

I think the main reason we are doing ok financially despite a low income (and high rent) is because we don't run a car - costs are astronomical when you add it all up. So I think as it stands now we would be worse off overall if we drove, even though we could do more stuff. We are saving hard for a house deposit so that's the priority right now.

I do hope I can learn one day but we are happy without for now and, overall, I don't think it is a problem. But I agree the main factor in this is where we live.

Mrsf thats why we didnt move to the US a couple of years ago when DHs job offered him a transfer. we lived in canada for a bit and really struggled. No shops deliver and the supermarkets are miles away.

I am glad my Dad made me learn to drive when I was 17. If I had left it until later in life I probably would not have learned (would have been too nervous).

We live in a small town/village in a fairly rural area. There is some public transport, and it has improved in recent years, but it is not regular enough and is expensive so driving is essential here. I couldn't get to where I am currently working if I couldn't drive. I drive because I need to, not because I like it (I don't, it just gets me from A to B).

As for my children, I am in a dilemma there. I know they should learn to drive, but we cannot afford either the lessons for them, or the sky high car insurance it would entail.

Also, when I was learning to drive with my Dad teaching me it was a very tense time for both of us, and nearly a disaster for our relationship. It isn't something I could face going through with my daughters, as it is important to all of us that we continue to get on. It will have to be someone else teaching them, but money for that is a problem.

morethan I'm confused by that. If driving is an advantage, how can not driving not be a disadvantage?

I suspect that people who have never driven say "oh I've always been fine" don't know what they are missing in terms of convenience and freedom

I realise saying that driving is convenient will have me flayed alive on MN but the truth is most of us drive because it's quicker and easier

I think she's foolish not to learn when she's young and someone else will pay for it! And someone that foolish shouldn't be in charge of a car.

I didn't learn until I was 30 (couldn't afford to). It makes life very much more difficult. I also didn't get a job specifically because of not driving. I was told I would have got the job otherwise. Driving wasn't needed for the job, but the boss (twat) was worried about my safety walking to and from public transport. Fair enough, I would have been walking through a working dock area, which he said was rather rough, but I would have done it. The really annoying thing was I had a car and had my driving test in a few weeks but he wouldn't take me on in case I failed and he had to sack me!

I also applied for a job in London recently where it said in the Essential qualities that you must be a driver with a car. Yes I am. But I didn't fancy doing much driving in central london and the job didn't seem to warrant it, so I asked at the interview how much driving was necessary. None, but the car/driver thing goes in all their job specifications. I probably wouldn't have applied if I couldn't drive.

"It is a pain when several extended family members can't/won't drive. Not only do they need lifts but it means many other chores fall to the few drivers."

I totally agree with this. My sister doesn't drive and it would be such a help if I could ring her and say 'oh could you bring mum here or there' sometimes. I don't grudge my mum the lifts at all, but it would just sometimes make life a bit easier if two of us could be on hand.

You can't really holiday (or live presumably) in America without being able to drive. I went to LA with a friend when we were about 22 and drove everywhere. Bit of an eye opener. But I couldn't have done it without being a driver.
Going out for an evening meal would have been a bit problematical.

BitOutOfPractice, I'd argue that those who think freedom and convenience can only be achieved by owning a car have never lived in London! When we visit the UK now we spend time in London with a hire car and it's nothing but a pain in the arse. We spend a fortune parking it up somewhere then end up walking or taking the bus or tube anyway.

I do realise that accounts for only a few million people in the UK though.

I've never had a permanent job that I could get to by public transport or walk. Admittedly in my younger days I could have lived closer to work than I did, but house prices were completely unaffordable where I worked throughout my 20s. We live in a small town now, DH works 15 miles away in one direction, no public transport at all to his, I work 10 miles away in the other, buses take more than twice as long as it takes me to drive and as I work within school hours it would render my job non-viable. We both work in a specialised field, there are no jobs in our town in that field. So, for me driving is an absolute essential. It would also seem unfair to rely on DH for all our weekend driving needs.

YANBU

When I was 16 my parents applied for my provisional licence (I did sign the form), arranged my lessons with their friend to start on the night of my 17th birthday and fixed me up with a car. My dad had had me driving a Mini van on his business premises for a while before. It was a given that we would learn to drive at 17 and tbh I couldn't wait.

DS1(19) wasn't that interested when he hit 17. But about 8 months after his birthday he wanted to. DH took him on the airfield to practice a few times. We got him some lessons, he whizzed through his theory and 10 weeks later he passed his test with 2 minors. He regrets not doing it sooner.

DS2(17) is learning now. He is doing really, really well and loves it. He has only had 5 lessons but is insured on DH's car so goes out in that. I can't wait for him to pass, tbh he can drive himself to school and work and I can have a lie in!

I think not being able to drive where we live would be a right PITA, the last bus back from town is at 17:35. What happens if you finish work later than that? They only run every two hours any way, and start at 7:30. You can't get to hospitals, doctors etc. I couldn't imagine being without my car!

Sparking rook, there are cities in the US where you don't need a car. New York is bit like London, where owning a car is more hassle than it's worth. We spent some time in Chicago and managed fine without one too.

Even here in Oklahoma City I'm not the only person I know who doesn't drive. I know a family with 3 young children who deliberately got rid of both their cars and decided to only walk, cycle or catch the bus!

LA is a very extreme example of a car dependent city.

I passed my driving test years ago, but I rarely drive, in fact I hate driving.

I live in a congested city and would much rather take my chances on a pushbike. When I have DC with me we usually take public transport.

Yes, that is true Mrsf. I was quite happy to not have a car in San Francisco for instance. That would have been terrifying.

Congested city on a pushbike RC? Respect.

I found learning at 32 really hard. I passed on my 4th time.

I was quite fearful and my instructor said that most teens soak it up like a sponge, unlike us older learners.

I am SO glad I did it now and 7 months later I still get a kick every time I get into the car. I am a good, safe and confident driver, but it took 6 months after passing for me to get to that stage.

I found it all very difficult and I still struggle with parking in tight spots and reverse parking. I am a good driver but my parking really needs some work. So far, I get around that by parking right at the back of busy car parks where I can just drive in. I know how to do it but I still have some anxiety over it. I am not an arsehole parker; I just park somewhere easy and then walk a bit if I need to.

I can't drive and I'm having to learn - I've got to this age (old enough) without having to but I really do need to now. I wish I had learned at 17 and I will encourage my children to.

Mrsfrumble I lived in London for over 10 years. Both with and without a car. I agree London is easily doable without a car but London is not like the majority go Britain. Plus, by definition, if you live in London and have a car you would usually have a place to park it (ie at home) so not like visiting with a hire car at all.