To expect him to pay?

[AtSea1979]

This is going to sound terrible I know but for some reason I feel it.
Went on first date with a guy last week, paid £20 babysitter, and met him for drinks, we both bought a round.
He told me he had a lovely time and would I like to go out for dinner next week, I said yes.
Tonight, I paid babysitter another £20, and went out for meal, when bill came I got my purse out to pay (total £55) my half but then he put £30 down and I was surprised he didn't tell me to put my purse away. Even though I would have said no and paid half I still feel like he should have paid the full.
I know they are my kids and my responsibility but I still wonder whether I want to date someone again who is so tight.
AIB completely U? (and date I say, sexist?) Or would others feel similar?

limitedperiodonly

Did they tell you this or is it your belief that they did?

The babysitting bit is neither here nor there.... But I would expect the man to offer to pay on the first date. Not sexism. I don't think, but accepted good manners. I wouldn't necessarily accept the bill being paid by him it would depend on the circumstances. I'm mid thirties and my dating days aren't so far behind me fyi.

Expecting a man to pay IS sexism.

Using 'Tradition' as a way round paying is the same excuse entrenched sexism exists today in everyday life.

Dress it up however you want but expecting a man to pay is only one step short of escorting.

Well what about in gay relationships? Is it a life of splitting the bill?

SOME, SOME FUCKING SOME!!

MOST, MOST FUCKING MOST!!

I once went for lunch with a group of about seven men (almost all gay), I was the only woman, and although I loved them dearly, when it came to it I nipped off and paid the bill at the counter before anyone else saw it as I could not stand the forthcoming testosterone-fest "I've got the biggest willy wallet, I shall pay" that I knew was coming otherwise.

"Would you like to pay by card madam?"

"No thank you I would like to pay by penis"

I hope that, in the spirit of tradition, all of you who expect the bloke to pay give him a ruddy good seeing to and leave quietly in the morning, once you've made the coffee and done the dishes, of course...

Did women really get trampled by horses and force-fed in prison for this shambles to occur?

Pic attached for relevance. ;-)

Well what about in gay relationships? Is it a life of splitting the bill?

The same thing straight couples do: Whoever offers to pay is the one to pay.

Is this an internet dating thing though? To expect men you barely know, on the second date, to be head over heels in love with you and automatically know to pay for you?

No wonder there are so many stories about internet dating not working and men not phoning back!

I just keep coming back to this thread and every new page yields more laughter and head scratching from me. I never approached dating in the way so many women appear to from this thread and can't work out if I'm the weird one or not. In the world I live in women with this attitude are called gold diggers. I couldn't have cared less when dating if a man suggested a swanky place or a Wetherspoons... That's not what I was focussing on!! I've never been "taken" anywhere by a man, it sounds so passive!!

And for the record on our first date we happened to be in an area DH knew but I didn't. He suggested the grottiest looking, 80s-flock-wallpaper Chinese restaurant in the divy-est bit of town. The whole meal cost £30 (which I paid for because he was a lowly Newly Qualified Teacher warning about £6 a month and I wasn't) but the food was delicious. But clearly his choice of restaurant and the fact that the wine they served came out of a box, as well as his general poverty, should have signalled to me that he was no good and I shouldn't have bothered with date number two?!!!

God help your daughters if this is what you're teaching them about relationships and gender equality.

Also- as an aside- I have a very good male friend who's been online dating for about a year. He has complained to me many times about the entitled women he's been on dates with who have expected him to pay despite never having met him before. Each time he's moaned about these women- and there have been loads, not one or two- I've said he must have been unlucky and unequivocally advised him not to bother seeing these women again. I thought he was just unlucky or exaggerating but clearly these kind of women are much more common than I realised

I am shocked at this. I don't think the pay gap is there in the majority of jobs. Most jobs have a specific salary. I expect that probably changes when you get to super high earners in the private sector but most people wont experience this.

My husband found it great that I was willing to pay my way. His previous gf never put her hand in her pocket. I don't think women who expect the man to pay do the rest of us any favours.

@Jayne35

I think many people see it as being a bit entitled, lazy and stingy to be honest and trying to dress it up as tradition is a bit weak in my opinion. It was ‘traditional’ that my mother used to do all the cooking/shopping/cleaning/ironing etc when I was growing up, I would like to see my wife’s reaction if I suggested to her that she should restart that ‘tradition’. What do you do when you are out with friends down the pub, do just the men buy the rounds, do you just sit there and wait for your drinks to magically appear?

For what it is worth, you are not alone, I still occasionally come across women when am I am out with groups of friends and work colleagues who honestly think that buying drinks is ‘not for them’ and will happily accept beverages all night without a shred of guilt. Bizarre really.

@ChelsyHandy

'Is this an internet dating thing though?'

Generally no, I did the whole internet dating thing and met my now wife there. I would say about 80% of the women I met had no expectation for the man to pay and threw their cards into the plate at the end of the meal without hesitation. I guess with internet dating it is not uncommon to have two or three dates a week so it is a bit much to expect the bloke to pick up the tab for all of that. Additionally, the manner in which you are meeting tends to be more of a mutual interest thing, if that makes sense, rather than a ‘can I take you out for dinner’ situation that may arise in different circumstances.

Basically when I was dating if I sensed that a women was of the 'I am too good to buy a round' school of thought there was rarely a second date.

Perfectlypurple the pay gap does exist, and one of the many reasons is that, broadly speaking, girls are often socialised (whether we like it or not) to think they are not worth as much as a man, and (again, broadly speaking) boys are socialised to believe they are worth every penny, and more.

There was a remarkable bit of research not so long ago which found the best way to attract high-flying women to apply for a senior post was to lower the salary. These were not blushing ingenues - these were highly-qualified, experienced women applying for senior posts, and the research found that many just wouldn't apply for high-paying jobs they were eminently qualified for. The same research found that underqualified men thought their other qualities compensated, and were happy to apply. (God knows where I read this: I'll try to dig it out, if I have time.)

I've seen this demonstrated again and again in my sector, too.

He asked OP to dinner. I would expect him to pay.

@WooWooOwl
Asking someone if they like to meet for dinner etc ... is not an invitation to pay!

I didn't even attach my real name to my online dating profile - I'm hardly likely to post my credit score and a complete list of expenses.

If I did, what counts as an expense? Do I add a scoop of Persil if my lucky pants need a good rinse? Should I use a disposable razor, or a fancy Gillette one that might cost a few pennies more - would it put my date off that I'd traded up a brand, or would I be The Best A Man Can Get(TM)? If I show up looking dowdy, but with an invoiced total of a single bus ticket and offering to pay, is that better than rocking my sexiest look and waltzing in with a summary that has more zeroes than PlentyOfFish?

Or I could just look nice, make no assumptions, go Dutch, and not be a git about it...

Slippery road in to the world where a succesful man is the one who earns more than she spends, and a succesful woman is the one who can find such a man!!!!

CEvert... that's something my dad would have said... and got an 'eye-roll' for it. It's up there with 'dad dancing'.

Obviously if I am out with friends or colleagues we take turns going to the bar, if it's a couples night out then yes, the men go, by choice. I am certainly not entitled (DH and I both work full time and as I put my (much lower) wage into his account why shouldn't he pay for nights out?) And if I were to ever date again I would not expect to be paid for, but I would accept if it was offered.

Regarding women out on 'work' nights out not paying for drinks, that is very rude and actually does give women a bad name.

We have also been known to share chores, I iron and DH cooks as my cooking is awful for example. I clean, he mows lawn. So yes we do split jobs sort of into female/male ones, which is our choice and we are happy with how things work for us.

As for sexist/entitled I posted on a thread recently about a woman choosing to have a baby when the man didn't want it - in defence of the man, if both equal then equal life choices and decisions.

womble

No it really isn't most. You will find that in most places a female and male employee working the same hours in the same position will earn the same.

Like someone else mentioned the pay gap is usually with high earners.

I'm pretty sure what you say is wrong, TurtleyAmazing. I am going out now so I don't have time to find the statistics to show you that you are wrong, but at the very very least Unison disagree with you - here.