To wonder if teacher is wrong?

[sezamcgregor]

Had meeting today with head teacher re DS's progress he's 6.

We've had problems and I'm having regular meetings to discuss progress and to get guidance with my parenting.

I've been told that I speak to DS like an adult because when he does something g wrong, I often explain to him why rather than just saying No. Just No.

I always had the idea that if you were fair with children and have them a reason why we don't do things, it would be better on the long run as thy know why and we're not just saying No for no reason or just for the sake of it.

I really feel like I've had the carpet pulled from under me as this is something that I've always really believed in having thought that if my own mum had told me why more often I would have understood things better and would have understood that she was being fair rather than just snapping that No means No all of the time.

She's made it very clear that I should stop explaining my Nos and should do a No means No approach.

OP, it boils down to the simple question... Is your approach working?

If, after all these years, your son is not responding to your style, then I seriously think you need to take on board what the HT is suggesting, because if it has got as far as parenting guidance with the HT, then something is amiss.

It's difficult to give any suggestions if we don't have the full picture. When the kids were young I would sometimes explain things but other times it would simply be NO! I don't think there's always an explanation needed, especially if he's repeating a behaviour he knows is unacceptable. Is he constantly questioning the teachers when he is told not to do something. I imagine that would get tiresome after a while.

Sometimes no should just mean no and other times it's better to explain why.

This

Why can't you do both?

I have always explained to my children why I say no to something. I also try to speak to them like equals in the family with the right to be respected and heard. However they also know that No means No. They know they may not like it or understand fully why, but they also know they will get a reason.

They are now 8&6 and I'm saying no less often - because they understand my reasoning, they are working out for themselves what I'll say no to. They are mostly right :)

If your explaining stuff is wishy washy and ineffectual, then no, the teacher is not wrong.

I can see where you're coming from, children do need to understand why we do and do not to certain things, but they are children and the fact is that they are not always going to be able to fully understand. That's why they spend quite a few years being children who have parents and adults to guide them.

Even when children know why they shouldn't do something, they still can't always comprehend the consequences and effects of negative behaviour.

You've clearly been going into school for guidance with your parenting for a reason, if your approach was working you wouldn't need these meetings with the head. Do your child a favour and take the advice that is given to you.

I've not read all replies, but so not to drip feed:

My DS has no attention span. He has always been very lovely and a real handful.

When we started school last year, they could not control/contain him as I moved him a year ago.

We were referred to Ed Psyc and school doctor and I have been having meetings every 6/8 weeks to get us all together and discuss progress.

DS is much better and is making progress. They have said that he does not have ADD or ADHD but has low self esteem an his acting up is a mask for this.

We met today and went over things, he is doing well with maths and reading but needs to improve his writing and spelling. He is listening in class more and is learning well.

He is a ring leader and children do what he says and play his games, so they are trying to empower children in his class to be able to say no to him etc.

Then she dropped this bombshell. She says that I speak to him like an adult and need to treat him more like a child ie not explaining why I'm saying no, just doing the "me mother, you child. Answer is no" thing.

I've never seen anything wrong before in explaining my decisions and want him to know that I do thing for a reason, not just on a whim or for spite.

I think you can explain why, and also have it that no means no.

There is a difference between explaining and negotiating. It sounds like there may be a bit too much argument when your ds is told no, and the school are having trouble with it.

I'm always in favour of explaining why, but will not be budged once I have said no. The reason is only an fyi.

i agree with a previous poster to sounded to me like she was saying your reasoning leads to negotiation and your son should just take your word that no means no and thats that.

there are times i will explain to my dd why i have said no. now she is seven most stuff doesn't really require an explanation anymore as we have already been through that. if she said can i stay up late and i say no you have school in the morning that is the end of that conversation. does your son except simple explanations like that or does it start to derail into a huge conversation? if it is the later then i would want to get him out of that habit to be honest.

i agree with others that if you are having meetings at school about your parenting then there is a lot more going on here for it to be possible to give a simple you are right or the teacher is right.

Have recently spent time with my DGD and she is constantly explained to but that means no other conversation is possible in her vicinity as the longwinded explanation just interrupts and runs over everything else.

Upshot is she has everyone's total attention all the time as nothing else is possible.

But I wondered how a teacher would cope with 30 children to give long-winded explanations to.

What kind of things are you saying no to?

I think there is a time and a place for explaining.

If you always explain your decision it may come across that you are justifying yourself which could lead your ds to see himself in a more powerful position.

It is all context - I know someone who will explain but it is in such a gentle way that any discipline is out of the window and ends with a cuddle. This doesn't go down too well when he has just smacked another child in the face (they're 8).

When you speak with others, do you ever say 'no'? Or do you always give a lengthy explanation about why you don't want another drink/a takeaway for tea/another sandwich?
Adult conversation doesn't mean that you have to rationalise every decision you make.

If he has no attention span do you genuinely think explanations are going to work?

I agree about explaining things but was the teacher maybe saying that you talk to him like an adult in that you discuss what he is doing rather than telling him what to do sometimes? - negotiating, like a previous poster said, rather than telling him?
Is he expecting to have a discussion about instructions from teachers and then chose whether or not to do it rather than accepting their authority and just doing it?
It's obvious that school feel there is a problem, maybe they just haven't explained it very well.
Hope it all works out OP, it must be really difficult.

I very much agree with mommy2ash's first paragraph - also, if it's suspected he's doing this for your attention, he needs to get less of it for there to be an improvement. So a short sharp rebuke, rather than extended one-on-one time, is less of a reward.

Well he is a child. Not an adult.
As others have said certain situations need a quick no and a quick response.
It sounds a bit like he's pushing the other kids around. They don't have the luxury of being able to explain themselves when they say no. Your DS needs to learn that sometimes when other people say no that's what they mean. His peers can't explain to him every time they want him to stop/leave them alone etc. He needs to learn to respect others wishes.
Again it sounds like school feels the approach is not really helping. That he needs firmer boundaries. Children can become quite insecure without consistent boundaries.

1. To rule out ADD/ADHD he needs to see a child psychiatrist, not a school doctor or an educational psychologist, as neither of them are qualified to make a proper diagnosis. He may have ADHD (inattentive type), a version of ADHD they may not even be aware exists. This needs checking properly.

1. If children were reasonable they would never misbehave. They would hear you out and then say, "Know what, mum? That's so kind you explained all that to me. Obviously you make complete sense and I will bear all your advice in mind in the future and desist from whatever I was doing". Only children do not say that, they struggle to comprehend an adult world and they need you to be consistent and firm while they navigate it. Child psychiatrists recommend the book 1-2-3 Magic, or the Triple P parenting programme, in order to refine parenting techniques and bring about good discipline. The good news is that even if your son does have ADHD (inattentive type), or any other disorder, they will recommend 1-2-3 Magic or Triple P anyway. So I would suggest you get onto Amazon and order it. The book is rather American and cheesy but the underlying theory and advice is rock solid sound. Lots of MN people have used it and found it helpful.

1. If children didn't go to school, we wouldn't even have to label them with behaviour disorders, as a lot of this comes about from putting them into large age cohort related groups. But there's not a lot you can do about that unless you home school. So ignore it for now, but remember this is about getting your son to fit in with school, to make everyone's lives easier, which is fine, but in many ways an end in itself. Your son will be fine.

I work on the basis - this is both with my own dc & with my year 9 tutor group - that first they obey the instruction & then they can ask for an explanation...which I'll happily give unless there's some other urgent matter needing my attention.

It's not as if they get to decide my reason's a crap one & they aren't going to do whatever it is.

They are welcome to obey the instruction, ask for an explanation, decide that it's a rubbish reason but accept that they'll still have to comply because I Am The Boss Of Them.

So we might just as well start with the compliance, since that's where we're going to end up, explanation or no explanation, & save everyone the stress of repeated requests.

Does the HT think that he has too much 'power' at home due to your parenting style?

Also who is the school doctor? Is that the community pediatrician?

I wonder if your child appears in school to want to argue the toss over every thing he is asked to do that he doesn't want to/ or asked not to do. That could result in a conversation very similar to the one you have reported, if you negotiate everything at home... Just can't do that at school.

I think explaining is fine, provided it's brief-
"No sweets- it's nearly dinner time."

The problem for me is when the child draws you into a conversation rather than accepting your decision e.g.

"No sweets- it's nearly dinner time."

"Why can't I just have one?"

"It will spoil your appetite, you won't eat your dinner."

"Well if I eat my dinner can I have sweets afterwards?"

And on and on....

Sometimes with children you do just need to say
"I've made my decision, I'm not going to discuss it any more."

I'm not certain, when I'm "Mum", she's "School Health".

And amaranta makes a good point. If he has a very short attention span he's going to struggle to listen to much more than the first 30 seconds of your explanations. You may be wasting your breath.

His influence over other children rings alarm bells for me. I taught a child that sounds very similar. Low self esteem, the alpha male of the group. We had issues throughout his school career.
He turned into a rather unkind bully.

Obviously your son is a different child but he needs to learn, and fast, that when someone says no he has to respond appropriately.

I think it's pretty clear what they are saying to you but you are not giving us the full story.

They the asking you to "put manners on him" as my mum would say

Children do need to hear the word 'no'. They need rules and boundaries. Of course you should explain why too but it does sound like you are one of those parents who won't tell their child off. Bloody annoying for other parents actually.

She couldn't think of an example (frustrating) - but I'm guessing it's because he's been next to a child being told off and he's butted in with his "yes, because if you do that this will happen..." reason that I've given him at home an they don't want his know it all input.

We talk about lots of things as I was surprised frowning up how little general knowledge I had and often No didn't make sense.

I get what pp's have said about negotiating - perhaps I do. I'll be listening carefully to myself now though so will soon know!!