to ask why if you disapprove of porn

[katekong]

Besides the moral implications that many people in the porn industry are used/scared/mistreated/on drugs. If you disapprove of porn in a relationship, why so?

I'm on my third long-term relationship where I've discovered that my dp has a secret prolific porn habit. I've said at the beginning of each relationship that porn is ok as long as everyone's open and honest. Yet all three have kept it secret which makes it wrong and seedy in my opinion. Iccan't describe why it feels so wrong succinctly, so was hoping others could help me to articulate my feelings. If you disapprove of its use (separately) in relationships, why so? If not, why not?

"Besides the moral implications that many people in the porn industry are used/scared/mistreated/on drugs."

Well, I just can't get past the above, therefore porn is unattractive to me as a consumer and I don't need any other reason to hate it.

I won't eat battery eggs, I wouldn't holiday in Dubai, wouldn't wear fur. These are all boycotts I make based on my understanding of the suffering that has gone into producing something I might want to consume or use.

I don't find sexual images unpleasant or disturbing, not even explicit ones. But the porn industry is hideous, you must understand that op??

I know women are exploited and injured making porn but it spices up my sex life so I don't care

They're adults, they're consenting, and they're getting paid. They're hardly helpless. They could easily get a shitty job flipping burgers if they wanted.

The biggest reason most stay in porn is the money. Let's not infantilize women and deny them personal responsibility.

Stunt men get injured and killed and you still watch movies.

I disapprove of porn because I am a human being with feelings for others. HTH

Exploitation and participating in abuse
The pernicious and damaging effect on people's psychological development when exposed to extreme/violent/degrading sex acts
Distortion of perception about real sex and real women
Preference for anonymous gratification over real sex
Those would all be my issues. 2-4 are risks rather than definite effects, so may not apply to every porn user. Not all porn is extreme/violent/degrading for example, and I can believe that there are men who avoid such material in favour of amateur type which is less harmful. However, the first issue is unchanging really.

They're adults, they're consenting, and they're getting paid

Do you know that? Can you say with absolute certainty that everyone in this industry is of age, consenting, getting paid?

Hmmm.

I'm ok with porn as a concept. I don't see it as cheating. We enjoy it together and to me a movie is far removed from sleeping with someone else.

Also our personal tastes are not extreme so I've not come across some of the stuff that other posters describe which has put them off - I know it exists of course. We also don't tend to watch the produced stuff if that makes sense, more amateur.

I'm going to watch some of the stuff (channel 4 doc) mentioned here and see how I feel about it as an industry then.

Why do you ask 'besides' ( the exploitation, drugs, etc etc' ) ?

isn't that itself a bloody good and a good enough reason?

I personally find porn dehumanising. It reduces people - imo - to rutting animals. I don't like that.

I find that increasingly what was really extreme porn has now become mainstream, bordering on 'vanilla' and this, imo, can cause issues when people who have little or nothing to compare it to, think that this is what sex is. When anal, for example, is part of everything and you see things like going from one to the other and back again, you think do people know about the hygiene implications of this? (Leaving aside other issues, and pain and long lasting continence issues from using an out hole as an in hole, iyswim...)

I am concerned that there are people who do not do it through choice and that I cannot identify which people do it because it is their life long ambition and dream, and which people do it because they have either been trafficked, or they need money for drugs, or they have been so abused in life that they see no other life for themselves. I don't want to risk being part of something that continues to abuse and exploit someone.

Selfishly, I do not want to be compared to women who are far more attractive and sexual than I am. I would not want to feel like the person I was with wished I looked like them and not me. I also would not want them to feel that they could pull me around, twist me into position, put me at risk of an infection by transferring bacteria from bowel to vagina and invite their pals to join them. (ok that last one is just my personal dislike of this apparent trend for there to be several men using (and using is the word!) the body of a single woman.

I used to watch it (as I am sure is obvious!) but my views have changed as I have read more, and through reading been given a wider understanding, and I would never watch it again.

I realise that everyone has different opinions on it and we all have the right to our views, and since you have asked for our views, this has been mine.

I'm not anti porn but in our marriage, sex is only when we are together. So apart from masturbation, anything sexual is as part of a couple. Porn therefore is only when we are together or if we are both apart, not as something that replaces sex, but something that enhances it.

PBC, the thread isn't meant to be a discussion of ethics of making porn; the OP made that clear. But as porn is often made in very poor countries, where there are food shortages etc, the idea that people are making a free choice and could just get a job flipping burgers is obviously ridiculous and insensitive.

Hi PrincessBabyCat thanks for taking the time to respond to me.

I suppose it depends upon how we view "consenting" and "helpless". Men in the illegal gold mines of Africa or cocaine fields of South America don't exactly have a lot of options and are exploited because of this. However daily they "choose" to live such risky lives.

I do fear for teenagers though and them not knowing what normal sex is or be developed enough in their personal preferences to reject the more extreme stuff.

Because of the widespread abuse and exploitation of women in the industry I have problems with the ethics of people who provide the demand.
I'm always curious about how people with this particular stance feel about gay porn. Not to watch it yourself, necessarily, but from an ethical standpoint. Is it just as bad, not as bad, hadn't thought of it?

I do think that porn in a relationship can serve a purpose. If one partner has an interest that the other partner is not willing to personally indulge, or has a much higher sex drive than the other person, and the porn scratches that particular itch, then surely it's better than either cheating or being sexually unfulfilled? In fact, it might even benefit their relationship in that instance.

My ex used to look at porn (I discovered when I was using his computer), but I couldn't mind very much because I did too (fitting into that unscratched itch category).
If one partner looking at porn leads to the other partner having a diminished sex life then it's a problem, but if the non-porn partner is happy with the amount and kind of sex they're getting, and it's otherwise not impacting their life in any way, then I genuinely don't understand what the issue is.
It is a shame that people feel that they need to hide it or be ashamed of it though. I do think that secrecy is a problem, but with the way most people react to porn it's also probably understandable.

I also think that in a relationship, the most important thing with this particular topic (responding to OP here and ignoring the moral implications) is that both partners have to be on the same page r.e. Accepting/not accepting porn, and not keeping it a secret.

That doesn't mean that you have to announce when you are off for a wank! But the knowledge that it exists and happens sometimes shouldn't be a secret IMO.

then I genuinely don't understand what the issue is.

You genuinely do not understand the issue with people being injured and exploited and abused in order to "scratch your particular itch"?

Ninja, how I feel about gay porn is that gay people, including gay journalists, film makers etc, are far more concerned with the ethical issues around porn, leading to exposes around exploitation by certain countries and around certain geographical locations. This puts pressure on companies to become more ethical and allows viewers it make more informed choices.

Straight viewers of porn, and straight media, don't seem to care very much at all and seem to feel little ethical concern about what exploitation is in straight porn. They don't seem to show any sense of ownership of the problems caused by their own viewing and demands. Straight porn is also much more likely to show violence and aggression, and less likely to show warmth, tenderness and compassion.

Do you know that? Can you say with absolute certainty that everyone in this industry is of age, consenting, getting paid?

Do you eat produce? Can you say that everyone that helps harvest agriculture is of age, consenting, and getting paid? Even organic food only regulates how food is grown, not harvested.

No. I can never know for absolute certainty that every single person is getting paid and treated fairly.

But at least here in the US with all our pedophile paranoia there are laws that are to be followed, and investigations are launched if they catch wind of anyone under 18 being starred in a film and websites hosting said videos can be charged with distributing child porn, even if the age of consent is lower in the country the video was made. So I would say the majority of porn on mainstream sites is probably 18+ and most websites make sure they're following the law to avoid investigation.

Yes, there are rogue underground websites that have so despicable stuff, but the minority doesn't represent the majority of the industry.

I suppose it depends upon how we view "consenting" and "helpless". Men in the illegal gold mines of Africa or cocaine fields of South America don't exactly have a lot of options and are exploited because of this. However daily they "choose" to live such risky lives.

Yes, but women today have far more options. There are women at fast food places, coffee shops, retail, store clerks. All are shitty low paying jobs. But people still take them and can survive off them and gov. benefits. Unlike the illegal gold mines in Africa, women in developed countries have other options that they choose not to use because of the allure of money.

PBC, you are being really callous. People need food. Millions experience malnutrition every year. You don't need to watch porn. A want is not a need.

yabu. adding "to ask" doesn't make a non-aibu into one, you know.

Because its demeaning, exploitative, sexist and harmful. And mostly very shit.

almond

Straight viewers of porn, and straight media, don't seem to care very much at all and seem to feel little ethical concern about what exploitation is in straight porn.

what bloody rubbish!

PBC, you are being really callous. People need food. Millions experience malnutrition every year. You don't need to watch porn. A want is not a need.

So because people need food it's ok to bring in child labor, pay below minimum wage, and generally exploit foreign workers? I hope your only argument isn't it's ok to exploit for necessary things and not unnecessary things...

There are laws. People break laws, yes. But they're not suppose to, and the majority don't. I would venture to say that almost all the porn on mainstream sites is legit.

You genuinely do not understand the issue with people being injured and exploited and abused in order to "scratch your particular itch"?
I go with the assumption that the majority of the people in the industry are there because they choose to be. Based on having spoken to some of them. It's also not hard to avoid anything that looks dodgy or not above board.

However, I was referring to the impact of porn within a particular relationship, not the wider ethical implications. The OP did specify that this was the answer she wanted.

almondcakes thank you for answering my question. I tend to agree with you. I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that porn is more openly accepted in 'the gay community' (I'm still not sure what that is...) than it is in wider society. As long as porn/sex/female sexuality is a thing that is meant to be swept under the rug and not talked about, then it's easier for a lot of people to look the other way.

I would say that "porn, sex and female sexuality" are absolutely not one single thing. In fact the opposite.

PBC, no it is not okay, obviously, to exploit people for any reason.

That doesn't explain why you are attempting to equate your desire to look at other people's naked bodies and/or watch them having sex with other people's need to eat.

These two situations are not analagous.

I go with the assumption that the majority of the people in the industry are there because they choose to be

I go with the evidence to the contrary. Even if it's a minority that are exploited and damaged, that's too many for me.