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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask if you treat your sons and daughters equally... and, if not, why not?

169 replies

HelenHen · 03/06/2014 15:16

I have ds (22 months) and Ds (2 months). I've promised. DD that I will treat her exactly the same as Ds. I then realised dh hasn't done the same and I've let him off the bloody hook (gonna rectify that though). He talks about how he's afraid to play rough with her like he did ds and a few other small things. Surely this is just beginning the sexist process at the earliest opportunity? I'm gonna have a word though!

So do all of you treat your sons the same as your daughters? And, if not, why the hell not?

OP posts:
Gennz · 04/06/2014 00:04

Absolutely ReallyFuckingfedUp I totally agree, both re the idiocy of the strategy and the fact it's really about not liking daughters havign sex. And tbh I think my parents would agree now too, as DB knocked up his uni gf who ended up moving overseas with their child. My parents never see their GD which is a great sadness for them - very short-sighted strategy all round!

DollyWosits · 04/06/2014 00:18

I treat all my DC differently.

I always find this concept of treating children in a gender neutral way a bit pointless unless their parents are fairly gender neutral themselves.

It's all very well treating DC as a unisex but if 'Mum' does 'Mum' stuff and 'Dad' does 'Dad' stuff it's a bit meaningless.

I did notice that it's the OPs DH that plays rough with the kids.. How cliche Grin

The best thing you can do is be a good role model.

HelenHen · 04/06/2014 01:34

I play rough too dolly.. Where dis I say it's only dh who does?

I do 'mom' stuff but that's purely out of circumstance and probably the result of living in a sexist world. One of us two has to do it and, as a result of the patriarchal society we live in, that's me!

So no, it's not meaningless to give my son and daughter equal opportunities in life... How ridiculous!

OP posts:
Misfitless · 04/06/2014 03:09

Mmmm it depends, doesn't it?

They're different ages for starters, and have different personalities.

The other day I gave my 3 youngest DCs a list of chores that they needed to do individually.

My DS (8) had a much bigger list than either of his sisters, which included stripping the bedding off his bed and washing it (in the machine.)

Neither of his sisters had to do this, they are 6yrs and 4yrs, and imo, having shorter arms and being smaller would have made this difficult for them.

I didn't treat them the same, I treated them age appropriately, I think, irrespective of their gender.

Treating them the same would mean each of them having to strip and wash their bedding, but that would be unreasonable and unfair.

My point is that children can't always be treated the same, it's not possible some of the time.

Theas18 · 04/06/2014 07:58

How do you tease gender differences from age and birth order?

Surely noone " plays rough" with a 2 month old ? You chuck babies around and turn them upside down when they have some trunk stability, can really hold their heads up, and aren't like to vomit on you !

So many differences in my 3 ( GBG) that the gender stereotypes don't come into it.In some ways it looks like it does-

DS was allowed out alone at a younger age than DD1- but that is because he has a great sense of direction. At 21 she still finds it difficult to go new places or explain how to get to somewhere she knows well . DD2 cooks - not only bakes but preps/cooks veggies and meals. DS does not ( much though being encouraged). This is because she is coordinated and handles knives with ease having started with plastic knives and mushrooms at the childminders at about 18 months! She is tidy and organised. He is not and has a fine hand tremor too..Yes he still does veg, but it takes hours...

TheWordFactory · 04/06/2014 08:17

thea I have boy/girl twins. That certainly teases put age and birth order Grin.

If my own experiment is anything to go by, when given the same enviroment, same activities, same opportunities at the same time, girls behave more like boys, and boys stay the same Grin....

PleaseJustShootMeNow · 04/06/2014 09:05

I don't because there's 20 years between my 2. I'm older and wiser when dealing with DS. When DD was little I didn't have a clue with hindsight. In fact I think it's a bloody miracle she made it to adulthood.

OutsSelf · 04/06/2014 10:02

Isn't there some clearly established work on the fact that girls are more likely to be into boy stuff because the rest of society associates status and authority with male identity WordFactory ? Can't put my finger on it off hand but I'm pretty sure it's alluded to by Douglas Hofstadter

TinklyLittleLaugh · 04/06/2014 10:54

"I am so proud of my girl for choosing engineering!
she has put up with all kinds of crap eg a fellow pupil tweakng her nipple while she was using a drill - lucky he didn't get drilled really - but she put the tool down and punched him in the face.
the teacher didn't notice the last bit, bless him"

Jesus, I did an engineering degree 30 years ago. I didn't come within a million miles of something like this happening to me. Society is going backwards.

Please tell me that, rather than simply turning a blind eye, the lecturer threw the boy out of his class. This is sexual assault. it should not be minimised.

TortoiseUpATreeAgain · 04/06/2014 10:58

"Boys have testorone surges for example, girls don't, so they benefit from rough housing. "

Do you have any source for that, Iggly, so far as the prepubescent years are concerned? I know Steve Biddulph asserts it, but (in spite of the fact that he gives references for almost any other remark he makes) he doesn't cite any research or evidence, and I've seen scientists say that it's just not true.

NigellasDealer · 04/06/2014 11:03

yes tinkly he was made to leave the class - I would have been furious if not!

TinklyLittleLaugh · 04/06/2014 11:37

Some comfort I suppose Nigella. Good luck to your daughter, I hope this sort of crap doesn't put her off.

OutsSelf · 04/06/2014 11:46

Seconding the call for that testosterone research back up.

5madthings · 04/06/2014 12:08

outself I think it works both ways, boys/male activities are seen as 'better' and it's good for girls to do them. But the reverse is that girls stuff is seen as inferior and so boys are discoutraged and socialised against more 'girly' stuff. Iykwim?

So it's ok and good for a girl to be a 'tomboy' (hate that word) but a boy liking girls stuff is seen as not good, the're are worried re bullying etc and some girl stuff is seen as inferior.

It's bollocks because colours and toys etc are not gender specific but the categorizing of them and marketing etc is all pervasive and insidious and does influence our children from a young age.

Back to the op, four boys and a girl here, if anything we are stricter with the boys as I can't stand the boys will be boys excuse! And dd is only 3 but she will be expected to behave just as the boys are. She is just as rough and tumble as ds2, ds3 and ds4 are (ds1 never was a physical child). She loves bugs and dirt and scooting and animals and also fairies. She is who she is, all five of my children are very different and you do treat children differently but because if their personality/age, not their gender. Or at least we are trying to not let gender make a difference.

But as an example discipline strategies we used with ds1 don't work with ds2 so we have to do different. Ditto ds3 is different to ds2. Ds4 and dd seem more similar to ds2 but they are still their own unique person.

I think like many parents we are muddling along and hoping we don't fuck it up too much.

But gender issues and socialization and constructs are something I am aware of as a parent and I am trying to support each of my children to be who they are to the best of their abilities, regardless of gender.

calmet · 04/06/2014 12:16

There is research where researchers have dressed the same baby in a pink or blue babygrow and told people the baby is a girl or boy, and let them interact with the baby. Peopel treated the baby in a pink babygrow totally different to when it was in a blue babygrow.

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 04/06/2014 12:27

So it's ok and good for a girl to be a 'tomboy' (hate that word) but a boy liking girls stuff is seen as not good, the're are worried re bullying etc and some girl stuff is seen as inferior.

Yes, and is there a word for a boy who is seen as "feminine" that isn't used a slur?

Lancelottie · 04/06/2014 12:34

Hmm, interesting question.

'Artistic' or 'arty' gets used of one of our boys. Also 'theatrical, dramatic, sensitive, colourful' or bloody annoying, but you asked for something that wasn't a slur The other one sometimes gets called 'sensitive' (in a different way) or 'a quiet sort' or 'a thinker'.

5madthings · 04/06/2014 12:37

Nope I don't think so? Terms for a boy who is more feminine tend to be derive like 'pansy' 'puff' or they are described as 'delicate' etc and not in a good way :( it's crap.

My ds3 has always loved pink and purple and fairies and pretty dresses, he is 9 now and lots of his friends are girls and he is very caring and would probably be described as having many feminine qualities. Thankfully he is happy with who he is and is fairly confident but it has been a tightrope to walk, letting him be himself but also trying to make sure he realises some people will judge him negatively or take the piss etc.

We are lucky the school he goes to is very hot on bullying and into acceptance and differences are good iyswim. So he hasn't had a problem at school and our friends are lefty liberals like us and also have no issues.

I think on mnet I got accused of 'living in a fantasy bubble' as people couldn't believe he wasn't picked on etc and I was slated for buying him a fairy dress and some other 'girly' bits of clothing (he was 7 at the time). I think the area we live in is quite normal, but judging from mnet you would think not!

TheIronGnome · 04/06/2014 12:38

I had a best friend when I was 17/18 who had a twin brother. He was allowed to get taxis alone after a night out and she was not. I'm pretty sure how they were differently treated had a great deal to do with their poor relationship growing up and his horrible entitled personality.

Both parents had quite 'traditional' ideas.

5madthings · 04/06/2014 12:38

Dramatic, sensitive etc are not always used in a positive way for boys or girls tbh... Drama queen...

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 04/06/2014 12:43

I do wonder why parents who think their girls need more protection don't just enforce the same rules on the boys then in the interest of equality. If it is no big deal stopping the girl form having a life it's no big deal stopping the boy

5madthings · 04/06/2014 12:45

Cos boys need freedom and to sow their wild seed...

FrauEnglischLehrerin · 04/06/2014 12:48

I would also be interested to know whether the thing about testosterone in young boys is backed up by research, as I'd heard it and taken it to be true without investigating.

Outsself's comment about having to stop herself complimenting girls on their dresses struck a chord for me. I've tried hard not to force dd into a "girl" stereotype, but there are so many ways in which it's possible to treat boys and girls differently which are almost unconscious that I couldn't possibly claim to have treated her exactly the same as if she had been a boy (even allowing for exactly the same personality, etc.).

5madthings · 04/06/2014 12:54

Yes yes having a girl after four boys the nnovelty of girls clothes has been fun, she also wears her brothers hand me downs and is a big fan of any clothing with dinosaurs on but little dresses with matching pants are very cute! Her clothes are always practical so she can climb and run and jump etc but I have had to stop myself saying she looks pretty.

I have opted for looking funky which is a compliment I can and do pay to the boys as well, but I also make a point of telling dd how strong/agile etc she is and praising her physical skills rather than her looks. It takes a conscious effort though which shows how ingrained it is.

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 04/06/2014 12:56

DD in a dress will be told hos pretty she is. DD in "boys clothes" will be on the receiving end of "oh well, boys will be boys", Hmm because she is just a ball of energy and strong and fast. People comment on those things when they meet her "as a boy". Otherwise she has pretty curls or eyes, or even weirder the urge to just talk about her clothes which were obviously chosen and bought and paid for by adults and are nothing to do with her.