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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to think the 'common law/freeman on the land' thing is a whole load of bollocks?

794 replies

qwertypop · 01/06/2014 20:10

I've come across a few people over the last few years that take it very seriously and bang on at length about how the police and courts have no authority over them as they are self declared 'freemen'. Something to do with common law being the only true law in Britain, I think? And not having to wear bike helmets or pay for TV licenses or repay your debts also seem important to the ones I've had the dubious pleasure of meeting.

A couple I met at the weekend have taken the biscuit though and not registered their baby's birth because apparently this will mean said baby grows up to be a 'freeman' (she's actually a girl but the term appears to be freeman anyway). They believe quite firmly that to register her birth will mean that the law assumes her and her name (which is a fucking corker, of course) are one and the same and that only by NOT registering her birth can she be free to be a human being. Quite what this actually means is a mystery to me and tbh the mumbo jumbo they gave me by way of an answer leads me to suspect they don't really know either Hmm

I've tried to read up on it but all the info I can find is written in a style you'd expect of an paranoid, delusional, and possibly hallucinating chimpanzee let loose with a legal dictionary.

So AIBU to think this is bollocky woo of the most fucking ridiculous type? Or is someone going to come along and actually enlighten me as to wtf its all about, preferably in plain English with no pseudo-legalese?

OP posts:
LisaMed · 20/01/2015 12:29

DownstairsMixUp - not sure what you mean

If you google 'freemen on the land' this thread comes up at number three.

NatashaGurdin · 20/01/2015 12:31

DownstairsMixUp

I just had a look at that debt free website and it appears to be a mix of commonly available information and complete rubbish. It says on there that:

"We aim to provide valuable resources and hope to offer a unique insight into dealing with debt, by acting honestly, lawfully and truthfully, which does not follow the advice of Debt Counsellors, Citizens Advice Bureaus or Financial Advisors"

Anyone who uses the methods they suggest (which does seem to be related to the 'freeman' stuff) runs the risk of making their financial situation much worse that it needs to be.

Also there is the moral aspect, why shouldn't you pay back the money you have borrowed?

It is just like those stupid websites who make claims about social services having adoption targets to achieve by 'stealing' children and who actively encourage people who are involved with social services not to cooperate with them which is probably the worse thing they could do.

SurelyYoureJokingMrFeynman · 20/01/2015 12:34

Fantastic thread. I'd never heard of these loons.

(and here's the Wink which fell off my post above)

GoringBit · 20/01/2015 12:50

fairnotfit, I have gone from wrong-name Shock Blush and self-Biscuit to Grin. Drone will be returned pronto, no corners turned down or greasy fingernails, ready for Argos endeavours.

Surely, Natural Law and MN Law, I think.

Spero · 20/01/2015 13:06

Lisamed - if you do produce a guide to history of law, please can I put it on the CPR site? That sounds a fantastic idea.

DownstairsMixUp · 20/01/2015 13:11

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

LisaMed · 20/01/2015 13:30

Spero I've self published fiction, so I know I could perhaps knock up something about the rough stages of law and how it evolved, looking to counter some of the stranger arguments. It would be cut&paste, I'm not up to original research, and if I do something like that it would be as a free ebook which I would be happy for anyone in England & Wales to use if it was useful. The only reason I think I would be able to do something like that is that I have a rough idea of the legal stages and a reasonable idea of how to find out more from reputable sources. It wouldn't be a great and life changing work, but would perhaps be a useful framework with attached list of sources.

Actually, I feel quite flattered that you would think it worth it. I shall go away and briefly feel smug.

NatashaGurdin · 20/01/2015 14:10

Oh yeah DownstairsMixUp, it's funny in a silly way in that these people are apparently so proud to have got 'one over the banks' etc when there are lots of people who can get similar results by following the advice of CAB/debt advisors etc or indeed by claiming back mis-sold fees/insurance etc. Of course, as it is the internet, it is entirely possible that some of them might be making it up? Smile

If you make an effort to pay back at least something, banking institutes may feel inclined to help you by agreeing to a 'full and final settlement' but if you are generally rude and obnoxious (not to mention barking mad and claiming copy write of your name and that laws don't apply to you but to a strawman Confused!) they are just as likely to sell the debt on and the whole situation starts over again ...

Quite amusing though ...

DownstairsMixUp · 20/01/2015 14:13

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Spero · 20/01/2015 14:16

LisaMed, definitely worth it. I would probably be considered 'highly educated' about legal history in that it was one of the options for my degree BUT we didn't start until about 1500 and I have only the haziest recollections of that.

I don't think history is well taught generally but legal history particularly must be especially arcane.

And the danger of this is that it leaves vulnerable people open to exploitation from others who peddle another 'version' of historical truth. I am not naive enough to think we can 'save' everyone who might fall victim to this as I know some people are very keen to believe, whatever the pesky facts. But if it could help some people who are wavering about whether or not they embrace this lunacy, it would be worthwhile.

If you were able to do a 'potted version' I could put on the blog, I think that would be an excellent addition to the resource. Happy to credit you however you wish.

Lilymaid · 20/01/2015 14:32

Can I suggest some of the books for children on this list, though they are obviously far too advanced for the "freemen".

Chunderella · 20/01/2015 14:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RandomNPC · 20/01/2015 15:01

He's not been back under another name then? Shame. For those who have got too much much time on your hands, this would seem to be a pretty merciless legal takedown of this FOTL nonsense:
www2.albertacourts.ab.ca/jdb/2003-/qb/Family/2012/2012abqb0571ed1.pdf

RandomNPC · 20/01/2015 15:03

From very early on in that document:
"February 15, 2011: Mr. Meads filed a one page notarized document, printed in black and red ink, and marked with what may be a red thumb print. It also bears postage stamps in three corners on front and back, and includes various declarations including that “::dennis-larry:meads::” is a “living flesh and blood sentient-man”, a postmaster general, and that Barb Petryk, a clerk of the Alberta Court of Queen’s Bench, is appointed his fiduciary and is liable for “all financial damages and bodily harm against myself ::dennis- larry:: of the meads-family::"
Completely crackers.

Lilymaid · 20/01/2015 15:22

"Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument"
This judgment is wonderful and I can read it at work without the boss thinking I'm not doing proper work
Thanks for the link!

florascotia · 20/01/2015 15:30

I've absolutely no wish to discourage Lisa from her projected history - which is obviously much needed and sounds like a really great idea- but, just in the meantime, two or three little vols in this series might perhaps be of interest:

global.oup.com/academic/content/series/v/very-short-introductions-vsi/?type=listing&cc=gb&lang=en&subjectcode1=1803299|LAW00010&

LisaMed · 20/01/2015 15:43

florascotia I may have a go but I am under no illusions about my limitations. These look really interesting, and really useful. I shall be having a further look...

Actually there is a shedload on Amazon now I have had a look, and quite a few on kindle, they are looking incredibly tempting. It's a shame it's too late to ask for them as Christmas presents

www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_nr_n_1?fst=as%3Aoff&rh=n%3A266239%2Cn%3A68%2Cn%3A275945%2Ck%3Aa+very+short+introduction&keywords=a+very+short+introduction&ie=UTF8&qid=1421768478&rnid=1025612

Lilymaid · 20/01/2015 15:55

Random
That case has been cited in 60 subsequent cases since 2012! There must be a lot of strange people in Canada.

LisaMed · 20/01/2015 16:01

Lilymaid I laughed out loud when I saw your book recommendations.

LoafersOrLouboutins · 20/01/2015 17:12

Waaaaaaaait I think I kind of know a person who has been mention on the thread! Page one or two, the freeman on the land driving a range rover of sites special scientific interest? That sounds just like somebody I kind of know. Its a small world.

SuedeEffectPochette · 20/01/2015 17:46

Lets hope the baby never wants to go on holiday then. No hope of getting a passport, or indeed a bank account, without a birth certificate.

LisaMed · 20/01/2015 17:57

LoafersOrLouboutins I wonder if they would consider legal redress...

florascotia · 20/01/2015 18:11

Lisa Thank you! Like you and others here, it really infuriates me when wilfully ignorant people try to invent their own history. Really misleading for anyone who does not have the time to find out for themself, and terribly disrespectful to the real thinking-and-breathing people who lived in the past.

SunshineBossaNova · 20/01/2015 18:17

Utterly hatstand.

LoafersOrLouboutins · 20/01/2015 19:57

Lisamed I'm not sure... tbh most of the so called 'freemen' are hypocrites! If its the guy who I think it is then he possibly wouldn't.