To feel free to use other children's toys in the sandpit?

[HarderToKidnap]

We go to lots of parks with our 2.4yo DS. He loves the sandpit and often we take our own spades etc, although sometimes we forget and sometimes go somewhere adhoc and don't have things with us, or go to a new place where we don't realise there is a sandpit.

Now, often in communal sandpits there are various buckets and spades lying around looking abandoned. I always feel free to give these to DS to use, having had a quick peek round for the owner. If after I pick up the spade I can't see anyone looking territorial, I will just give it to him to use. I keep an eye out for anyone coming near us spadeless, so I can quickly check with them whether the spade is theirs, and leave the stuff where i found it when we're ready to go. If I abandon my spade whilst DS toddles off to another attraction and I see someone else using it, I never mind. Just part of being at the park.

Anyway, got a mouthful off someone the other day for using a bucket they'd left in the pit. They'd stuck some paper pictures onto the bucket and one had come off. I'd noticed this before picking up the bucket, which had been laid there a good twenty minutes before DS picked it up. I stashed the paper pic safely and was intending to leave it in the bucket when we left. To reiterate pic had already come off bucket and was next to it. They were REALLY cross about the use of the bucket and obv thought we'd caused the pic to come off.

Discussing with friends today, there seems to be an even split between those who thought I was hideous for using someone else's toys, and those who thought mouthy mother was a lunatic. MN Jury, what say ye?

P.S., I'm not intending to change my behaviour at all, btw, regardless of MN consensus. I love the give and take in the sandpit and have had nothing but positive interactions with other mums and kids re the sharing of toys, save this one incident. This AIBU is purely for information gathering purposes!

Plus I think there's a difference (personally) between a child playing with an abandoned toy and giving it back when asked, and a child snatching a toy that the owner isn't using that very second, and/or refusing to give it back to its owner when asked to do so.

I don't get hung up on a kid playing with DD's sand toys (though I would look askance at the parents if another child jumped on DD's bike and rode off), but I can't believe that I would find it OK if DD were to snatch another child's toys, or refuse to give them back when asked - or worse (as experienced upthread) that I would refuse on DD's behalf 'as she was really enjoying playing with them'.. ???

I still can't get my head round the fact that people would turn up at a park with no toys of their own and expect that their children should be able to play with other childrens things, regardless of whether they ask or not. Different if your child is playing with another child and decides to share their toys with them, but otherwise, I'm afraid I find it rude and entitled.

Has anyone actually tried saying "No" to their child?

But soontobeslender:

• it might be a new park to them and they didn't know there was a sandpit
• they might think the toys were belonging to the park as there was no owner in sight.

Is that really so hard to get your head around?

soontobe - I understand what people are saying and that's what makes me sad.

Children borrow our toys every day especially when we have 'abandoned' them left them for other people to play with Today we had four children play with us (I was present) and none asked permission. You know why I didn't mind? Because they were all under five years old. And if you don't understand why we accept difference in adult and children behaviour I don't know what to think...

I would never ask parents why they don't bring their own toys. Some have told me they don't know where to buy a bucket etc or they forgot to bring them. Maybe some people don't have the cash, maybe some people are too tired to be organised, maybe they think if their two year old touches a plastic piece of crap its no big deal.

No I don't let my DS touch things were the parents have obviously tried to 'put away' but with our stuff I try to teach him that the importance of possessions pales into insignificance compared with the importance of having an open spirit and good manners.

no, it's not hard to get my head round the fact that, you are at the park and you didn't bring toys so you either play in the sand pit without toys, rake through your bag and see what you have that can be used, or go and play with other bits of the park. Unless there are about a hundred abandoned toys in the sandpit by which you can reasonably assume that they belong to the park then why would you pick up stuff that doesn't belongs to you?

Children don't melt if you say to them that they have to play without things in the sand pit. Sometimes in life we don't always get everything that we want, you create a false reality by allowing children to think that if you don't have something it's okay just to use someone elses.

yes violet, but the point you are making is that you were there and the children are all playing together - that's a completely different point, your children are then given the opportunity and encouragement and choice to share.

We have often made our own amusement with sticks and plastic cups/bottles and our bare hands, it's really not that hard. I can't say my children ever felt left out if we didn't have things with us, or felt the need to go and use someones elses things. But then maybe I was sitting in the sand with them playing rather than sitting on the bench nattering or playing on my phone.

But then maybe I was sitting in the sand with them playing rather than sitting on the bench nattering or playing on my phone.

Nice assumption.

Nice assumption about who? Did I say that was about anyone rather than a generic comment? I don't think I did. Did I touch a raw nerve?

Not at all. When I am at the park with my children they play with their friends while I gossip. No nerves touched because it's why I am there.

You were being bitchy though, and you know it.

Children don't melt if you say to them that they have to play without things in the sand pit. Sometimes in life we don't always get everything that we want, you create a false reality by allowing children to think that if you don't have something it's okay just to use someone elses.

But likewise, an adult shouldn't melt and be all resentful because a toddler is using a small plastic toy that they left lying around. Which is what the OP was all about. The 'sometimes in life we don't always get what we want' goes both ways.

Admittedly I don't live in UK but round here beach and pool toys are treated communally. You don't always get everything back, hence I don't spend a lot on them, but a few lost spades are definitely worth the flexibility of the kids all sharing each other's toys. Ds took a few pool sticks down today but ended up playing with a noodle while some other kids played with the sticks. In our apartment development, scooters and bikes are also shared- if the owner wants them back they just say. No dramas.

You were being bitchy though, and you know it.

And you are who to presume what I am being? I was generically referring to the increasing numbers of people I see that take their kids to park and pay no attention to them at all.

And also who said the adults were melting? I think in life it is more reasonable to assume that you can have your own things unused by others than it is reasonable to assume that you can use other peoples things.

At the end of the day I am comfortable that I have raised my children with a high moral standard, what others choose to do is up to them, but it is clear that I am not alone in my view.

But don't you see soontobe that when we have gone to play on the swings then using our toys is even less skin off our noses??

And also who said the adults were melting?

The Op said she got 'a mouthful' and that the owner was really cross.

At the end of the day I am comfortable that I have raised my children with a high moral standard, what others choose to do is up to them, but it is clear that I am not alone in my view.

You are doing it again. Your moral standard is yours. Just because someone disagrees with you, it does not mean they have a less high standard - just a different one.

Why should people have to ask to use their own things when they didn't give premission for them to be used?

My standards don't impinge on what other people do though, whereas other peoples do, so I can have a view on it because what others choose to do affects me and my children. My standard of not letting my children just pick up and use other peoples things doesn't affect anyone else.

Why should people have to ask to use their own things when they didn't give premission for them to be used?

They shouldn't have to.

It's funny when you talk about moral standards, soontobe. It's one thing teach your children not to borrow but another to teach them not to lend to a child who might have nothing, and is probably too young to have learnt to ask permission.

violet - you keep missing the point. It's not about taking or using things while you are there - children can see when someone wants to come and play and of course children should be encouraged to share - I don't know when I have ever said they shouldn't. We are talking here about people feeling that it is okay to pick up and use things if the owner isn't about. I think that's wrong and clearly a lot of people feel the same way. I wouldn't allow my children to do that. Of course I would allow and encourage them to share with children playing with them - or indeed ask other children if they want to come and play.

If we go back to the original post, then what happened was that the OP decided it was okay to use another child's sand toys as she couldn't see the owner. When the owner came back, she was annoyed as in her eyes they were damaged - whether the OPs children damaged the item or not is irrelevant as when the owner came back, it was the OPs children that had the toy.

If the OP had not allowed her children (this being one time amongst many others it seems) to use another child's toys then there would be no need for the whole situation to develop. Yes, it seems petty to the OP but clearly didn't to the owner of the item.

No permission was sought or given, no denial of sharing was done.

I think its common sense that asking would be nice.
My DC as toddlers had a stage where they were very possessive of their things. If somebody took their toys without asking, it would have been a storm.

soontobe - It makes even less sense if you're not there as there no one to ask permission.

If we leave our toys in the sandpit while we go off on the swings why wouldn't it be taken as read that it's okay to use the toys?? We left them there! We're not using them, we're on the swings. As I said before, even less skin off my nose...

violet - it might be useful for you to read back through the posts before restating what others have said as it would save me giving the same answer again.

it makes even less sense if you're not there as there no one to ask permission

Yes, think this has already been addressed. If no one is immediately in sight to ask, then don't use them? You don't have to use them just because they are there. You have a choice here.

I have read all the posts, soontobe it's just my beliefs conflict with yours. You don't need to restate anything, I'm just adding my voice. To me it just seems bonkers to leave toys in sandpit and then be upset when children play with them. I'm surprised when I find them untouched, that's all. It's just my opinion.