to be toying with the idea of having a baby alone with donated sperm?

[honeykitten]

Reasonably financially secure, no family whatsoever to help and no man on the horizon (mid 30s.)

I know I am a daft old woman

So johncusack , what you're saying is that it doesn't matter what horrendous situation a child is born into, as long as it wasn't planned and deliberate?
Often there are posts on here with someone saying "Help I'm accidentally pregnant with DC4. We have 3 DCs under 5, live in a one bedroom flat, I've just been made redundant and my DH is umemployed and struggling with alcoholism, and we have huge debts. Termination seems wrong but AIBU to consider it as I just don't think I would cope". Loads of people then reply "you'll be OK, you'll manage, I have 6 DCs in a one bedroom flat and we're all happy, you can buy second hand stuff, don't worry everything will be fine".

But when someone asks about using donor sperm the knives are drawn - "how can you be so SELFISH OP, so cold and calculating, as to bring a child into the world DELIBERATELY, without the choice of knowing their abusive alcoholic drug-addicted father?"

Don't get me wrong, I think to be brought up by happily married loving parents is the ultimate gold standard, I'm not for a moment belittling the traditional set-up. But few people achieve that, and if we're going to impose conditions on having children, then plenty of others people should be denied this opportunity as well as single woman wanting sperm donation.

I'm not blind to the problems that may lie ahead for my boys, I worry about it all the time. To qualify for donor sperm treatment I had to write a full account of the problems I anticipated and how I would handle them. I also had to have several counselling sessions in which my reasons for this course of action were questioned and discussed. This is normal practice for the clinic I used. I jumped through many hoops and continue to jump through them. But my kids are happy, and I will do everything in my power to keep it that way. No one knows what problems their kids may face. Kids from happy "conventional" homes can get bullied and commit suicide, nothing comes with any guarantees. Like any good parent, I do my best and work with what I've got.

That's just it, Jolly

I would like to offer my children a fairy tale childhood, but the problem with fairy tales is they aren't real.

There aren't any guarantees but one thing I can guarantee is I will really, really, REALLY love them.

That's about it

(And thanks for nice comments - they've given me a lift.)

Great post Jollyphonics.

I think it's much better to bring a much wanted and planned baby into the world as a single woman via sperm donation than to have a baby with an unsuitable father, it as an accident when your time, space, money and energy are already exhausted due to other circumstances.

Two good parents is the gold standard, but one good parent with a good support network and financial safety net in place isn't too far behind.

Out of all the less thantraditional ideal set-ups for a child to be born into, a child conceived via a sperm donor to a women who really wants it, and a child born to a loving gay couple, are so far down my lost as to have dropped off the bottom.

In fact, even calling them 'less than ideal' feels petty insulting.

On that list, are a myriad different traditional, nuclear, 'manogamous' hetero set-ups.

I can think of heaps of real and theoretical examples where far more damage is done to the resulting children, than anything the OP is proposing.

I think you sound awesome, honey - any child would be lucky to have you as a Mum.

I think it isnt ideal to have a baby as a single person .
Its expensive
Exhausting
Draining

That is why i think i would wait till 30s like op. Giving a chance of meeting a partner to share it with. (I think my dd gets a lot from evenings with her dad, he swings her about and does /says stuff i wouldnt ,as do her GPs and our friends). So that side can be good ,but not necessary,
I mean i think it would be ideal if my parents lived nearer but they dont.
Its things like having a backup when youre ill

I think talking about 'ideal' situations and 'less than ideal' situations is unsavoury. The OP is financially stable, sounds like a sensible person and positively wants a child. That sounds great to me.

Perhaps we could rank the different 'qualities' that ideal families should have .

Look at all the skint families that have kids - are they meant to wait around until they become wealthy.

Agree Lady, if we started saying only people in "ideal" circumstances could have children then the birth rate would drop to almost nil!

I think the OP's child, if she has one, would be absolutely fine.

TBH my concern is more for the OP and how she will cope with having a baby with no partner to share the load (not even an ex) and no family support. Many mothers end up single at some point, but AFAIK relatively few are completely on their own during the baby stage and I suspect those that are find it hard to cope unless they get a very easy baby.

honey you say no family around - I don't want to pry but is that something that could be fixed, eg if it's distance then could you move to be near them? Some kind of back up/help would make a huge difference.

I've done it and I work full time with no family around (in france). It's hard but no more than with having a man around I think. My 3 year old is well adjusted and sociable. Plus there are so many support group around.

Go for it, I don't regret it one bit!!

feel free to PM me too!

Does your three year old never ask about their dad French?

That's the bit I struggle with....What do you say?
How do you tell a child they don't have a dad because you made that choice?

Fair enough little children may just accept that but what about when they get older into their teenage years...don't you worry how they will feel about not having one?

Writer, everyone is different, I know my donor and so Dd has met him several times. It's generally been fine but even with that situation it can be challenging at times, in essence it is a tricky relationship in that he is her "dad" but neither she nor he feels like that about each other!

Having said that it probably occupies her thoughts about 1 percent of the time and certainly doesn't cause any great drama, it's just part of her story as all her friends have theirs. We know people who have used an anonymous donor and their children have found that situation very hard at times. It would be dishonest to say they haven't. However, like Dd they enjoy a very happy, stable family life other than that.

Writer, everyone is different, I know my donor and so Dd has met him several times. It's generally been fine but even with that situation it can be challenging at times, in essence it is a tricky relationship in that he is her "dad" but neither she nor he feels like that about each other!

Having said that it probably occupies her thoughts about 1 percent of the time and certainly doesn't cause any great drama, it's just part of her story as all her friends have theirs. We know people who have used an anonymous donor and their children have found that situation very hard at times. It would be dishonest to say they haven't. However, like Dd they enjoy a very happy, stable family life other than that.

I'm also a lesbian honey. The thread has moved on alot since I first posted the other day but I just wanted to say that just because you are single at the moment, doesn't mean you ALWAYS will be! Chances are you may well meet someone later on, down the line. I was a single parent of Dd till she was a toddler, then I met my amazing wife who thought that Dd and I were quite a catch! So did I! She relished taking on the role of parent with me and we have happily been coparenting Dd for 9 years now.

Even if I'd never met DW though I would have been quite happy to be a single parent. Once the tiny baby bit was out of the way (sorry, it was gorgeous but SO draining for me) I managed fine on my own.

Since my boys were born I have referred to "the kind man who helped me make them". DS2 is 5 so this goes over his head. DS1 is 8 so he has asked a lot more questions. I explained that I was engaged and wanted to have children with my partner, but he didn't want children so we split up. I was getting old by then and time was running out so I went to a special clinic and had the treatment needed to get pregnant. I think to him the donor is an almost mythical figure, a bit like God or Santa, who gives things but is never seen. (he goes to a church school but doesn't actually believe in God, and is questioning Santa too, but gets the idea of an unseen benefactor).

The critics here will really hate me now because my situation is doubly complicated. DS1 was born before the change in the anonymity law, so he can't ever trace his donor. By the time I went to the clinic for DS2 the law had changed, and my original donor didn't want to donate any more. So DS2 has a different donor, and he will be able to trace him when he's 18.
I am bracing myself for problems with this, but I still dont't regret what I did. I desperately wanted kids, and they are happy, and they love eachother too.

All any parent can do is hope that the choices they make are the right ones and that their kids will grow up happy and healthy. Sadly there is no insurance policy we can take out to ensure this, not even a happy marriage will guarantee it.

But Writerwannabe83, you may as well ask why don't you worry about how would you feel telling your teenager that your relationship is over or anything else difficult. I don't understand why this one thing that the child will have known all their life - and yes they may feel conflicted about it, and try to find their donated father, but surely not enough to wish they'd never been born because of it - is such an awful thing. Besides, everyone has some sadness or they wouldn't be human and I don't think you can guarantee having a donor father will even be a source of sadness for the child. It's so individual.

My question is why it's such a fear for you? Would you fear your teen getting angry with you or hating you for it? Because those are prettymuch things that are likely to happen anyway amidst the detritus of growing up. Your children are likely to momentarily blame or resent you and/or your partner for something (you didn't intervene in bullying, you intervened and it made it worse, your partner left, you never made your partner leave, you were poor, you favoured the other sibling, they were the 'favourite' and too much pressure was always put on them) - it's just life.

I suspect it might come down to fear of a choice having this effect, and fear at not being able to tell yourself that you have it all under control, when no one does, really.

Honeykitten, I think you sound great - really grounded and pragmatic. Any child would be lucky to have you as a parent! Good luck!

Thank you

Unfortunately both my parents died young. I was 14 when I lost my mum and in my twenties when my dad passed away.

My grandparents also died when I was young too. I have one aunt but she has grandchildren of her own and also is very involved in various things! So, no family at all to speak of.

I would pray the baby took after me in temperament - I was easy

I have great friends.

Writer he does and I have explain to him that I really wanted a baby and his dad was a nice man that help me having one. And that he is not in our life because he is helping other people but I (and the people he knows) love him very much.

You sound lovely & (as far as I can tell from the Internet!) like you would make an excellent parent.

I was lucky to meet my DH in my early twenties but if I hadn't (& I a similar age to you) I suspect I would be considering doing the same myself

Got for it.

All the best of luck

great post pandarific

pandarific it's not about feeling sad or deprived, it's the mystery. It's everyone else knowing something about themselves and their heritage (good or bad) that you are never allowed to know.

Why do you think people trace their family trees? Because most people are interested in knowing where they came from, seeing how they fit into a lineage, feeling connected to the past.

I cannot imagine how tormenting it must be to have half of that information deli stately kept from you.

It is selfish.

The comparisons some of you are making - "better no father than a bad father" are spectacularly missing the point. It's not even about having a relationship with that person. I realise plenty don't. But to deny a child the information about themselves is selfish and cruel.

Nothing to do with being gay either. I know two people who have used donor sperm. One is straight. Her donor is anonymous. She has major "daddy" issues already with her little boy. The other is a lesbian couple. A gay friend donated for them. It's all out in the open and they have a nice little setup.

It wouldn't be deliberately kept from the child though Toffee! It's not selfish - it is what it is. The OP can only conceive through donor sperm, so she's limited in what she can find out about the father. It's not about deliberately with-holding info now is it? There are downsides to co-parenting with a gay friend - and not everyone conveniently has a gay friend willing to do so anyway.

Children are born into terrible situations every day.

The OP sounds loving and thoughtful and if she can support a child, why the hell not?

Also bringing up adoption annoys me too - as someone who's been through infertility adoption was often suggested as a magic cure for my childlessness. Adoption is really tough. Just because you're not right for adopting doesn't mean you shouldn't be a parent. Maybe if more fertile couples adopted that would help matters.

Gah. And there's almost blatant homophobia here dressed up as something else as well.

Go for it OP!

ToffeeMoon I really dislike the way the word 'selfish' is thrown around on mn, as if it is the worst possible crime a woman can ever commit. Also, 'cruelty' is a pretty big word for something so ambiguous, and coupled with 'selfish', I think you're using deliberately emotive words to try and strengthen a pretty flimsy ethical case.

It could conceivably be considered selfish if one knew for certain that the child would feel as strongly as you do on the matter, but the evidence is that the vast majority definitely do not, and even if say the child did feel that strongly about the matter, would they ever really rather they'd never been born? I really doubt it. It's also my understanding that you can now look up your donor if you so wish when you get to adulthood.

Anyway, I disagree.

So, as long as something doesn't make you wish you'd never been born, it's ok?

You can only look up your donor if he donated in the UK. The majority of people doing this (both donating and purchasing) want anonymity. That's why many, many go to clinics such as the Cryo in Denmark. Business there is booming since stocks virtually dried up in the UK after the anonymity was lifted.

I'd be very interested in reading your links stating the vast majority of donor-conceived children are untroubled by the way they were conceived.

So Toffee are you saying that women who can't find a willing partner (an an agreeable donor) should simply not be allowed to have children? Drug addicts, alcoholics, murderers, child abusers - they can have children, but not single women without a willing partner?