to be toying with the idea of having a baby alone with donated sperm?

[honeykitten]

Reasonably financially secure, no family whatsoever to help and no man on the horizon (mid 30s.)

I know I am a daft old woman

I don't think you need to worry about what everyone things honeykitten.

As displayed on this thread, people think lots of different things. And to be honest, you can't argue with them. They are going on their own experience and sense of what matters - it's a question that goes to the soul of who you are and we cannot persuade each other using facts or logic.

But as I said before, it's been wonderful for me. We are accepted everywhere, viewed as just another family by everyone, and the children are glorious little people. That's what I meant when I said "babies speak for themselves". They come on their own terms and they give out and receive love. It doesn't really matter what else is going on in your set up as long as you have love, security and honesty that you can provide for them.

Writer, look. As far as I was concerned, society was one where being lesbian or gay was okay bar a few bigots.

Mumsnet is usually very anti-bigots. It's therefore come as a surprise to me that a number - not a lot, but a number - of posters are anti lesbians having children. And don't tell me it isn't "black and white"; of course it is. Lesbians don't have sperm. Lesbians need to get the sperm from elsewhere. If you are against this, or even have "some misgivings" then yes, you're against it.

How would you feel if I congratulated you on your child or pregnancy but added I had "some misgivings" because of something in your setup that you have absolutely no control over. You'd probably tell me it was none of my business, but I have to say something here, and it is this. It took me over a decade to identify as a lesbian. This thread or rather some of the posts because many have been supportive, has made me feel abnormal. It's made me feel dirty, ashamed of who I might fall in love with, and as if private business - how a child comes into the world - should be public knowledge.

How would you feel? Ask yourself that. Because I've tried to maintain good humour and politeness but I'm actually really upset. I feel dirty and ashamed and abnormal and I feel like a child of mine might feel that way too. I'd hope not, but I'm not confident to be honest.

Because let's be clear here, the objections raised are nothing to do with me, a single woman. They're to do with "poor child, no daddy figure" - insulting to many women raising children alone and in partnerships with one another successfully and well. They're to do with "donated sperm, bad, awful, shocking" - ignoring the fact that it ISN'T anonymous, it IS given altruistically, and it IS used by heterosexual couples too. But bloody hell, no one, NO one should buy sperm, right?

Some of you have disgusting little attitudes and dress them up in simpering little posts and concern for the child all you want - it's nothing to do with that. Because IF you were concerned for the welfare of unborn and un-conceived babies, you'd be casting your net a LOT further than me. But don't worry about my child, because it's not happening? Why? Because I never want my child to feel as I now do - dirty, and ashamed.

Your child won't feel dirty and ashamed and nor should you.

My grandparents were very anti me having a baby and made their opinions known from the start as soon as they knew me and DH were TTC. They said some very hurtful things to my face and also behind my back. They loved ringing various family members to bitch about how irresponsible I was being. It didn't mean it changed mine and DH's mind about having a baby. When I fell pregnant I absolutely dreaded telling them and although they were pleasant to my face behind my back they were still saying quite upsetting things. My DS is 10 weeks old now and they still can't help themselves from offering their opinion.

If you read back through this thread you will probably find 99% of posters are behind you - you shouldn't let the minority put you off.

As plenty have said you have clearly thought this through and no doubt you will be a fantastic mother so just go for it.

So this wasn't really an AIBU at all, was it OP?

It's not very nice to call people bigots for holding different views from you about an issue which is, quite obviously, open to ethical debate.

You seem very confident that this is the right thing for you so why can't you just go ahead and do it? Why do you need to have absolute support? This thread has clearly shown the vast majority of posters think it's a good idea and have wished you well. Isn't that enough?

Agree with writer

I know I am becoming boring but don't worry about having approval. You already know there is homophobia in the world - that's not new. And some people think that deliberately bringing a child into the world without a father is not a good thing to do. But we also know that already.

Most people do not think this. And anyway people who do think this can't "make" you feel anything. You choose your own feelings and you can choose to go ahead with dignity and pride, if that's what you decide to do.

I have done the thing that some people on this thread are thinking is so wrong and I'm fine with that. I don't even need them to change their minds - it's really ok for people to start from a different place on this. As long as they are respectful to me and DCs. And honestly honeykitten this all becomes a non issue once the DCs are here.

Good luck! You might find the Donor Conception Network really useful for further exploration on all this.

Agree with Quangle. There will always be others that don't agree with your actions, but you have to live the life YOU want to live, that is right for you. Not having a child and regretting it just because random strangers disagree with either sperm donation or lesbian parents (single or not) would be terrible. I'm sure I've met people in real life who don't agree with me having (donor conceived) children but funnily enough people aren't as free with their opinions to your face than they are when it's a thread on the internet! Don't let random strangers interfere with the course of your life!!

DCN is great and I strongly recommend you join. And there will always be people who judge but don't let that stop you!

Of course it was an AIBU, but people didn't answer the original question and gave their views on donated sperm.

Not very nice to call people bigots? It's really easy to avoid being called a bigot - don't be one. Funny, that.

So 99 percent of posters told you they thought it was a great idea and wished you well but all you can think about are the 3/4 who had ethical issues with donated sperm?

Why on earth are you posting on AIBU? If you're serous about your plan, surely you'd be better off posting on a conception board.

This is AIBU - you are soliciting people's views. I don't see where anybody was bigoted. You made it about your sexuality, nobody else.

As has been said, please don't internalise this.

I haven't seen anyone say, "You are a lesbian therefore you shouldn't have a child."

All I have seen is some people voice their thoughts on the use of sperm donation - and those who may have some issues with it are not being personal towards you, just the concept of sperm donation itself. Please don't take people's comments to be an attack on you as a person.

Just because people do not agree with sperm donation that doesn't make them bigots. If they were to say, "Well there's nothing wrong with women using a sperm donor, unless they're a lesbian of course!" then that would be bigotry but just because the concept of sperm donation doesn't sit well with someone that doesn't make them bigoted.

I'm sure there are lots of scientific advances that may pose ethical dilemmas (to use the words of a previous poster) and there will be some people who are in favour of changes and some people who aren't - that's just life. Everyone is allowed their own personal opinion on something.

Just because someone doesn't agree with what you want to do that doesn't mean they're a bigot, it just means they have different opinions to you.

Do not turn this into an argument about your sexuality as like another poster has previously said, nobody else has bought your sexuality into the equation when voicing their opinions.

There's a huge difference between people saying they would be concerned about a child who isn't able to form a relationship with their father and people saying "You're a lesbian so you're wrong to have a child" - which nobody has said.

My friend is considering using a sperm donor and I have spoken to her about how she'd deal with a child who wants to know why they haven't got a dad. My friend isn't a lesbian, just a single lady who wants a baby. My feelings about this still stand whether the woman making this choice is a lesbian or whether she is straight. Sexuality doesn't come into it.

If this is something you really want to do then go for it!!

Honey
I've been very supportive to you on this thread, as have the vast majority of posters, so I'm sorry and surpprised that it has made you feel dirty and ashamed of who I might fall in love with . As far as I have read, those who have disagreed with you have all voiced concerns about the deliberate creation of a child who wont know half their biological parentage. This is a genuine opinion held by some, whether you disagree with them or not. If you choose to go ahead, there will be people out there who think along these lines. Perhaps it might be helpful for you to be aware of the range of opinions out there if/when you go ahead.

Why would you ask AIBU and then not be willing to listen to the ideas of others who disagree with you? As the heading on AIBU threads state this topic does canvass opinions. I reckon MN usually shows a fairly good cross section of UK public opinion -there are some with strongly held moral and religious opinions, many with fairly liberal open-minded ideas and a small minority with let's say 'barriers to full understanding'. However I have not spotted a single post on this thread that has either openly or indirectly expressed concern about a child being raised by lesbians. I'm not sure why you keep re-focusing on this as an issue. Could you be reading your own interpretation into the posts that voice concerns because this is an easier opinion for you to reject (i.e. they must be bigotted) than the other explanation that some people in society will have genuinely held and considered opinions that disagree with yours.

I just don't get why you would ask the question and then be so offended by the people who disagree. If I was you I'd be pretty chuffed with the 90% positive response you've had.

also you will need to grow a thicker skin if you are going to have a child with a sperm donor! As mentioned people will judge so you have to be confident in yourself that you are making the right decision for you and the child.

as for parentage the child will be able to know about it when he/she is 18 but also I am very much in the belief that family are created and come in all shape and sizes and are much more important than blood.

finally as a single woman going through the process it is customary for most clinic to request that you meet with a therapist who can assess if you are strong enough to go through with this. The therapist will discuss parentage, etc.

OP, you asked for our opinions and YABU unreasonable to take offense at our giving our opinions.

If someone asks me should they get pregnant I might say I don't think its a good idea but I congratulate every woman on their pregnancy as every child deserves to be received into this world with a welcome.

Nobody cares that you're a lesbian, but it seems to be an issue to you.

Well, as I've said, I'm certainly not planning to have a child so growing a thicker skin is not applicable.

And also as I have said, I asked aibu to become a single parent - I only added the bit about donor sperm because I was worried people might think I meant one night stands, or something, and I wanted to make it clear I was serious about doing things "properly".

I never dreamed that would become the point of discussion

And yes, I know most people have been supportive but just the same, some of the comments have been horrible and downright insulting, not only to me but to dozens of same sex and single and heterosexual couples who have conceived a child in this manner.

OP I can see why you feel that way but given that as you point out the only way for you to have a child (as a couple or on your own) is via donation, I think you should do it regardless of the opinions of this thread - so long as you otherwise feel happy to have a child.

I'm another poster who has been 100% supportive (I've namechanged, I was LadyOfSome... ). I've reread the thread as I was a bit baffled about how why you have reacted to the very few posters who have raised 'concerns'. I know there are a couple of posters who have been more, umm, opinionated but I don't understand your outrage at all.
I can't see anything that would make me feel 'dirty' or 'ashamed' if I was in your position. Of course you might have interpreted the posts differently to me but I just don't get it.

I don't understand the point of your OP. If I were you I would embrace all the lovely supportive posts and ignore the rest .

As an aside, I don't get all the comments about the value of family support. It's fantastic when you have it but in my experience I've always got most of my support from friends rather than family. I moved overseas with my working-all-hours DH when I was pregnant with DC2 and soon established a lovely group of supportive friends.

So are you against lesbians having children? Was this remark aimed at me??

As I said I hadn't read the rest of the thread, but now that I have the only comments about lesbian mothers from other posters are favorable and as I wasn't even aware of your sexuality, I certainly didn't refer to it. Your sexuality is your own affair, all I was saying was from my experience as a single mother I feel that children seem to need to know who their father is and a broad extended family also makes life easier for them.

Do have a chip on your shoulder?

No, not normally Mexican, but since the only way I will ever have a family is through using donor sperm - and I know many children born this way whose parents dote on them - I am upset, I can't lie, at some of the comments on here.

Anyway, I really haven't got the time or more importantly the inclination to keep arguing the toss with people. I do feel awful after this. I feel "different" and as if the only way I'd have children is not good enough, and that has made me feel dirty and ashamed of who and what I am and what I have to offer a child, too.

I never thought for a moment the discussion would centre around donated sperm and it's ethics which calls MY ethics into question. Because no matter how much security I can offer, love and other salient things I will never be good enough because I can't tell my child everything about where they came from. And not feeling good enough, not feeling "normal" is horrible.

But you must have thought for yourself, when deciding whether to do this or not, the issue of the child not being able to grow up forming a relationship with it's father?

Surely anything that has been said on here about that issue is something that must have already occurred to you?

What children need is a parent, or parents who love them.
And yes, it might be hard, and yes, there will be stupid judgey people- but that's true for all parents.
Go for it OP.
IMO what you want to do is honest, open and carefully thought through- unlike so many pregnancies.
Good luck!

If that is enough to put you off that is a real shame.

I certainly have moments of weakness and doubt and worry about what my DD will ask/think when she is older. I also know there are plenty of people out there who disagree with the 'no father' aspect. Did that put me off? No way.

Noone else can make you feel 'normal' as you put it. There is really nothing wrong with choosing this route and if someone disagrees just let them! If you feel this way the likelihood us your child Will pick up on it, so if you change your mind and do decide to go ahead, put the doubters aside and go ahead with absolute confidence.

You have one life. Don't let anyone else dictate how you live it

honey don't dwell on the very few posters who have gone against you.

Who cares what random strangers on the internet think? It's AIBU, your bound to bump heads and on this occasion a very small number.

Do what you want to do, it's your life.

P.s I got hammered on my first AIBU.

Made me hide from MN for a teeny bit!