To think this mother needs to sort her issues out?

[FreckledLeopard]

There is a girl in DD's class (they're all in Year 8, so aged 12/13). The girl is in DD's group of friends. She is a sweet girl.

This girl (I will call her Sophie for sake of anonymity) recently turned 13. Aside from taking some cakes into school, she had no party or any kind of celebration as the mother said she couldn't afford to. I should probably add here that the school they all attend is private, so the mother must pay some school fees (though could, of course, have a substantial bursary. I don't know).

The girl lives with her mother and brother. The father (parents are divorced) lives abroad and doesn't seem to see much of his children at all. The brother is 21 and lives at home.

I've met the mother on a couple of occasions and she is odd. Very odd. Very fussy, very nervy, can't make normal chit chat. She is also seemingly obsessively grateful if her daughter is invited to anything (and given the amount that 13 year old girls socialise, it's a bit odd that she's so gushing and grateful anytime her daughter is invited anywhere).

Anyway, DD and her friends thought that as Sophie hadn't had any kind of celebration, they'd arrange a sleepover this half-term, invite Sophie, and make it a little surprise party with cakes and gifts. DD checked that Sophie was free, all the friends have been planning the party (fancy dress, food, attendees, music, presents etc).

Then, DD hears from Sophie (who is very upset) - her mother has said Sophie can't come as Sophie's older brother is out that night and the mother won't stay at her house on her own. She is too scared. Let me point out that they live in suburbia of a normal town (not known for gangs, violence or anything to be scared of). I called the mother (at DD's request) to explain that the girls had organised this surprise party which is why they really wanted Sophie to come. The mother told me she was sorry but was too scared to be at home on her own, so her daughter couldn't come to the party.

Sophie is of course massively upset (she didn't know about the party, but obviously wanted to see her friends). DD is upset. The friends are upset. There are no other dates that can be organised for half term.

Now, I understand people might have anxiety of some kind. But this woman is basically turning her children into her carers. God knows what happens if either the older brother of Sophie want to go to university, or, God forbid, leave home.

I've just had a text from the mother confirming that Sophie can't come. I'm sitting on my hands to stop myself from typing back that she needs to sort out her issues and not make her children suffer as a result.

AIBU in thinking this is massively unfair on the kids and will royally fuck up their lives? I obviously can't do much about it other than fume. But honestly - surely the mother should seek some help rather than making her kids suffer?

I completely agree with Ronald - great post.

You are all predicting a future for Sophie based upon absolutely no facts

You do not know if things have gotten better or worse for Sophie or her mum
Stop predicting a bleak future

You do not know if Sophie is any more happy or unhappy than any other teenager in the world.

Stop supposing things based on your own life experiences.

We know Sophie does have a social life
Does go to school
Does have sleepovers
Does use the internet
Does go out

She simply didn't have the party that the OP felt she should have.
She did bring cakes into school and many many children don't have parties.
She didn't get to go to a sleepover that the OP felt she should have.
She has previously and no doubt will again
Neither of these things are a cause for concern.

Freckled clearly doesn't like Sophie's mother and has her own problems surrounding a period of time that was v difficult for her and where she was overly put upon by her mother. She now believes that this is occurring in Sophie's life and it has resonated with her own personal poor experiences.
This does not mean that this is a fair comparison or a reasonable read of the situation.

Well I agree with that zzzz but I think it depends what this means. If it's a one off it's fine, but if she is living a lot of her life around issues (mental health/disability/favouritism whatever) it's not. I would find the mother's reasoning a bit strange & potentially concerning (I would slso wonder whether it was an excuse & the girl didn't want to go & this was face saving) & would keep an eye.

I have to admit birthday parties are an issue in our house (although mainly because respite clashes with NT activities).

Sophie might not like OP's DD, they have had a fall out. The mother manlike OP's DD in some way and is making excuses.

melted lolly - too right. There are times recently when I have been less than my best as a parent, still managed to do everything (clothes, cook, activties, school run) but my mood not great, less patience with DC. Im on the mend now (posted in health about this).

I can think if times when I was told to be good because my DM was bad with ' her nerves' as my late DGM would say.

There was a very honest thread on here last year about mothers who were not stuggling with MH but were open about not liking many bits if parenting and the grinding down element.

Maybe we need to talk about this more. I have encounter poor attitude towards MH in RL, just blank, non responses says it all.

The parent in the OP's sounds like she needs help and understanding not condemming.

"I had better add a standard disclaimer here, (don't want all the MH mums clutching their pearls in unison) not every person with MH issues is a bad parent, but many of them are."

You are wrong. Many of them are not. The MH team I have just left collated trust wide statistics on parenting with serious MH problems, so you are talking shite.

And no, I am not a parent nor do I have MH problems.

P.S. there is zero evidence of the mum in questions have MH problems anyway.

The responses from some people on this thread just goes to show there is still stigma surrounding MH problems. No wonder why parents are one group who are particularly afraid of speaking out.

It's Time to Change, people!
www.time-to-change.org.uk/

I suppose what you define as a bad parent. I am still able to show love and care towards my children when my mood is low.

I had better add a standard disclaimer here, (don't want all the MH mums clutching their pearls in unison) not every person with MH issues is a bad parent, but many of them are.

You are wrong. Many of them are not. hmm The MH team I have just left collated trust wide statistics on parenting with serious MH problems, so you are talking shite.

I will add that parents with untreated MH issues make bad parents. Your statistics are based off people in treatment where they're getting help (Otherwise they would not be diagnosed with MH), those parents are typically fine. But the majority of bad parents with MH issues aren't getting the help they need.

My mother had undiagnosed ptsd growing up. I was never in a carer position, but she made stipulations about going out that were impossible to meet so she could put the blame on me instead of her anxieties. Not to mention other aspects of ptsd that just made her a nightmare at times.

But I think a problem with many of our parents is that they grew up in a time where you didn't talk about mental health or abuse. My mom still gets along with her family, where I think most people today would cut contact forever. I wouldn't think twice about dropping them from my life if they did that to me growing up, but her life and all that. Fortunately now there's less stigma about getting help.

OP, you sound like you just want to gossip.

You do not know this woman or her issues, you have said you don't want to be her friend and called her weird. Do her a favor and don't get involved in her family life.

Just because it is the norm to have big parties doesn't mean she has to go along with this.

Offer an alternative date and then leave it.

As for the person who said that many people with MH issues are bad parents - that is complete tosh and is the kind of attitude that is very damaging. Shame on you. Also being a young career doesn't mean that you are some kind of slave who is being mistreated.

We've gone from a girl who cannot go to a sleepover on a certain date to people pretty much accusing her mum of abuse and neglect as she may or may not have a MH issue.

Did you bother to ask why she was so scared? Or ask if there was anything you could do to help her. OR perhaps rearrange to a suitable date?

You have no idea what this woman has been through that makes her so scared & nervy

"There are no ex issues from what I can tell." You know nothing of life & have no right to be gossiping about her on here or anywhere else.

I don't want to be her confidante. I don't particularly like the woman

I'm pissed off that Sophie is the one who is losing out.

I don't have any real interest in this woman. So you don't care about your daughter's friend's mum? Imagine what a difference this could make if Sophie's mum had a friends she could trust to help her with what she is going through. Perhaps she has such deep issues because everyone backs away or just wants to tell her she is ruining (I don't think she is) her daughter's life. Perhaps everyone she has met is like you, too wrapped up in trying to bully her into doing something that she obviously fears, instead of seeing it for what it is.

One of my daughter's friend's mothers is going through something huge at the moment. I know her, but we aren't exactly close. The girl is beautiful, inside & out & I will do what I can, when I can to help her family, because I care about this girl, as does my daughter. It's called support op, and I hope you never need it.

The mother needs to get help (a carer, someone to be around if her kids want to go out or similar). Hey, op! You could do that! Only, you don't give a shit about the mother, do you!

I am not a saint and am not about to swoop in and befriend the mother just because she suffers from anxiety or something similar. It's not my place and it's not something I'm inclined to do. If I can help her daughter, though, then I will try. She's a sweet girl and it's not fair on her.

Always someone else's problem, isn't it? Perhaps you could make this girls life easier if you did try to befriend the mum.

My mother was dependent upon me after my father died and I loathed it. Then you know how Sophie might be feeling, so you are being unreasonable!!

You make me so angry!! You judge (lack of a party/private school fees - can afford etc) you think she is causing her daughter issues, yet all you want is to bitch about her on here. You don't want to help at all.

I think you have issues, op. But I will refrain from telling you what I think of you.

"I will add that parents with untreated MH issues make bad parents."

You are still wrong and basing it on a sample of erm, one. You have no idea of the data collated nor the team I worked in. You are wrong. Most people with MH cause no harm to anyone but themselves. Go and educate yourself before making ridiculous sweeping statements like that.

You are still wrong and basing it on a sample of erm, one. You have no idea of the data collated nor the team I worked in. You are wrong. Most people with MH cause no harm to anyone but themselves. Go and educate yourself before making ridiculous sweeping statements like that

Or you could go to the relationships forum, and read the "stately homes" thread, and see how many (mostly undiagnosed and untreated) children of parents with mental health issues there are on there, and what wonderful mothers and fathers they made, all from the mouths of their adult children.

Or are you going to say people with NPD and make good parents? I am sure some of them do, I know many of them are the most toxic people around, and absolutely horrific parents.

I've just watched a 6 part documentary on borderline PD, they chose a random group to follow, the parents documented were far from good parents. Of the 7 or 8 with children, most of them had had their children put into care a number of times and 1 had their children removed permanently, 2 sets of children were on the at-risk register. Many of the slightly older parents had children who had chosen to go no-contact with the parents. Again, very much like the "stately homes" thread.

But hey, please do carry on and tell us how wrong we are.

people with MH cause no harm to anyone but themselves

oh such a nice (but ultimately silly) little soundbite. It's a bit like the one the gun lobby in the USA like to trot out at every given opportunity, what is it...oh yes

"guns don't kill people, people kill people"

that's the self-soothing kind of logic the gun lobby like to air, just as people with MH issues like to think they only cause harm to themselves. If only that was true.

Melted Stop projecting your issues onto a situation where we don't even know the mum in question has a MH dx. Why don't you just admit that your actual working knowledge of MH is very little - forums and TV programmes don't count? It is not a 'soundbite' how patronising! It is the truth. Do some research; you are coming across as very ignorant.

But we don't know the issue IS MH. If the issue is MH we don't know what sort of parent she is. All we know is she said dd couldn't go to a sleepover FFS

I was responding to the poster(s) who were indignant at my generalized statement that many people with MH issues make bad parents. Both my statement and their replies were generalisations and not directly related to Sophie’s mum.

P.S. NPD affects ONE percent of the population, whereas more common MH diagnoses affect 1/4 of adults at any point. NPD is very different to anxiety/depression and other common MH conditions too. It's like comparing a sprained finger with a shattered femur.

OP, you have made many subtly negative comments and assumptions in relation to 'Sophie's' mum.
I hope that you're not passing them onto your daughter and that 'Sophie's' peers are less judgy and presumptive.

Melted Stop projecting your issues onto a situation where we don't even know the mum in question has a MH dx. Why don't you just admit that your actual working knowledge of MH is very little - forums and TV programmes don't count? It is not a 'soundbite' how patronising! It is the truth. Do some research; you are coming across as very ignorant

Oh right, I get it. I'll shut up now because I am not qualified, and leave the stage to you, a self-proclaimed expert on MH issues, you took part in a study that collated statistics, you're knowledgeable and I'm ignorant. You are so right. I'll get my coat, shall I?

Again, in case you missed it: My statement that many people with mental health issues make lousy parents was a generalisation, and not aimed at Sophie's mum. Just like your generalisation that people with mental health issues hurt only themselves was also a generalisation.

Now pop over to the stately homes threads and then remind me what lovely parents NPD sufferers (diagnosed and undiagnosed) make.

OP you're assuming an awful lot about Sophie and her family.

Fantastic Mental Illness bashing going on. Would you say that most parents with an undiagnosed physical illness make bad parents too?

You have no idea of my qualifications or my experience.

You were incredibly offensive to parents who have MH problems.

It was not a generalisation that people with MH issues are more likely to be abused than be abusers, it is fact.

Stop putting words into my mouth that I said all parents are so fucking lovely. Some parents are poor parents and some parents have MH needs; there is not necessarily a correlation.

Christ on a bike; do you have any empathy for parents having a shit time?

I've not read the whole thread, but from your first post op YABVU.

The arrogance is astonishing,

What makes you think that you know what is better for this girl?

You have no idea what their family ritual is for birthdays and how they choose to celebrate!

I would be hugely offended if you threw my dd a party to compensate because you feel sorry for her.

You have made huge judgements based on very little fact.