To think this mother needs to sort her issues out?

[FreckledLeopard]

There is a girl in DD's class (they're all in Year 8, so aged 12/13). The girl is in DD's group of friends. She is a sweet girl.

This girl (I will call her Sophie for sake of anonymity) recently turned 13. Aside from taking some cakes into school, she had no party or any kind of celebration as the mother said she couldn't afford to. I should probably add here that the school they all attend is private, so the mother must pay some school fees (though could, of course, have a substantial bursary. I don't know).

The girl lives with her mother and brother. The father (parents are divorced) lives abroad and doesn't seem to see much of his children at all. The brother is 21 and lives at home.

I've met the mother on a couple of occasions and she is odd. Very odd. Very fussy, very nervy, can't make normal chit chat. She is also seemingly obsessively grateful if her daughter is invited to anything (and given the amount that 13 year old girls socialise, it's a bit odd that she's so gushing and grateful anytime her daughter is invited anywhere).

Anyway, DD and her friends thought that as Sophie hadn't had any kind of celebration, they'd arrange a sleepover this half-term, invite Sophie, and make it a little surprise party with cakes and gifts. DD checked that Sophie was free, all the friends have been planning the party (fancy dress, food, attendees, music, presents etc).

Then, DD hears from Sophie (who is very upset) - her mother has said Sophie can't come as Sophie's older brother is out that night and the mother won't stay at her house on her own. She is too scared. Let me point out that they live in suburbia of a normal town (not known for gangs, violence or anything to be scared of). I called the mother (at DD's request) to explain that the girls had organised this surprise party which is why they really wanted Sophie to come. The mother told me she was sorry but was too scared to be at home on her own, so her daughter couldn't come to the party.

Sophie is of course massively upset (she didn't know about the party, but obviously wanted to see her friends). DD is upset. The friends are upset. There are no other dates that can be organised for half term.

Now, I understand people might have anxiety of some kind. But this woman is basically turning her children into her carers. God knows what happens if either the older brother of Sophie want to go to university, or, God forbid, leave home.

I've just had a text from the mother confirming that Sophie can't come. I'm sitting on my hands to stop myself from typing back that she needs to sort out her issues and not make her children suffer as a result.

AIBU in thinking this is massively unfair on the kids and will royally fuck up their lives? I obviously can't do much about it other than fume. But honestly - surely the mother should seek some help rather than making her kids suffer?

Exactly mme!!

This is one event and you have no idea at all why her mum needs her at home that night. So stop pretending this is bigger than it is and for crying out loud get a grip

I haven't read all the responses.

I'd just like to say OP should tell the school.

I had a parent with mental health issues and nobody ever did any joined up thinking, nobody thought about how it affected the kids.

Whatever is up with mum, it's not fair on Sophie. Yes she needs to bloody well sort her issues out.

Hiding this now.

I suppose I should have added the caveat that I dislike dependence where there's no good reason for it. By that I mean women (mostly women, yes) who won't drive because it's something their husbands do, Or won't travel alone because they're scared. Or won't go out in the dark in case they get mugged. Etc. Obviously where people have physical limitations etc then that's a different story.

Anyway, will leave this thread now. I continue to stand by what I said at the beginning. The mother needs to man up, grow a pair, whatever, and stop burdening her daughter with her issues.

Agree, WordFactory.

Wheresthelight - I think it's pretty obvious that the OP does not mean she dislikes dependence on others caused by illness or disability. I read her statement (in view of the things she lists) as meaning she dislikes 'learned helplessness'.

I am very struck by the number of people on this thread who are assuming there is a real need for the mother to keep her dd at home, and creating a whole backstory from speculation. I am also struck by the fact that those taking Sophie's perspective on this often have experience of being in abusive situations or being depended on.

Wheresthelight, your post crosses the line to personal attack IMO.

x posts with OP.

No, zzzzz, that's not what she said.

You're wilfully misunderstanding her tbh.

It is interesting that the 'Sophies', who grew up having to care for needy parents, deeply empathise with Sophie's need for a social life and find this thread painful to engage with.

While the 'Sophie's mums', who empathise with the mother, are very comfortable to stay on the thread arguing that teenagers don't really need to socialise with their peergroup and family caring should be prioritised.

It seems there are a lot of Sophies out there.

Oh well lets just tell all people who potentailly have an MH problems jut to sort their issues out.

YABVVVU If this women does have anxiety she literally may no be able to function without the presence of one of the DC.

It is ignorace like this that boils my piss.

Yes I do understand it is sad for the DD and not great, you have probably made her feel a whole lot worse for saying how much has gone into it and you knew she was never.

You sit on your hands - you have made this more about hte effort your DD has put in than this poor mothers struggles whatever they are, no one thought to check the date first.

RTFT andsmile - the date was checked and agreed. Then the mother pulled the plug because the son was going away.

Anyway, many thanks to those not twisting my words and seeing where I'm coming from.

This has little to do with Sophie

This has to do with FreckledLeopard having had a hard time herself and having had her mother rely upon her after her father's death
This has caused her now to build up a lot of rules around how parents SHOULD or MUST be

Now Freckled perceives Sophie's situation through her own personal prescription sunglasses and it makes her view the situation without the perspective and reasoning that she might usually be able to employ.

We know Sophie has had sleep overs previously
We know Sophie attends school
We know Sophie brought cakes into school for her birthday
We know Sophie has friends
Sophie's mother just isn't behaving in the way that Freckled requires that parents MUST

Sophie is fine.
This is clearly a difficult situation for Freckled and I feel empathy for her that she is living with it but it is not a problem that she needs to push onto Sophie or Sophie's mother.

Freckled might want to see someone over her issues to help her deal with what happened to her and to allow her to have some empathy for others

Spot on, ithaka.

zzzzz - did you see the 'etc' bit? - She is drawing a clear distinction between things that cannot be helped and reliance on a child which might well be helped. But I think you, and others on here, want to be angry and righteously indignant right now.

I am very struck by the number of people on this thread who are assuming there is a real need for the mother to keep her dd at home, and creating a whole backstory from speculation. I am also struck by the fact that those taking Sophie's perspective on this often have experience of being in abusive situations or being depended on

Yes, with bells on!

I know I am not the only one looking at Sophie as being the priority and giving her situation the benefit of the doubt because I (we) have been in that situation of overly dependent/abusive parents with MH issues.

And it's pretty obvious we have a load of people looking at it from the mother's perspective and giving the mother priority and the benefit of the doubt because they themselves have mental issues that impact their children/family.

One thing I have learned about MH issues, and I have learned this from professionals in the MH field, and I am not saying it applies to every person at every moment in time. But all too often people with MH issues become overly self involved and everything becomes about their wants and their needs.

*This has little to do with Sophie

This has to do with FreckledLeopard having had a hard time herself and having had her mother rely upon her after her father's death
This has caused her now to build up a lot of rules around how parents SHOULD or MUST be

Now Freckled perceives Sophie's situation through her own personal prescription sunglasses and it makes her view the situation without the perspective and reasoning that she might usually be able to employ.

We know Sophie has had sleep overs previously
We know Sophie attends school
We know Sophie brought cakes into school for her birthday
We know Sophie has friends
Sophie's mother just isn't behaving in the way that Freckled requires that parents MUST

Sophie is fine.
This is clearly a difficult situation for Freckled and I feel empathy for her that she is living with it but it is not a problem that she needs to push onto Sophie or Sophie's mother.

Freckled might want to see someone over her issues to help her deal with what happened to her and to allow her to have some empathy for others*

Salient post.

I'm not getting into the disability aspect, but surely also the fact that 9PM pick up was refused shows this is probably just a (bad) excuse?

Didn't we ALL get our mums to lie, blame them and bitch about them to 'friends'we didn't want to see while secretly relieved?

I'm confused. I thought that was rather normal!

op I think you are right that parents' issues should not affect their children, but sadly they do every single day.
In this situation I would continue to support Sophie, and if at all possible her mother. There is nothing else you can do. The world is full of innocents taking the brunt of other people's pain and insecurities.

She is missing ONE sleepover not a whole list of them

This is being blown out of all proportion because people especially the OP are projecting

It is interesting that the 'Sophies', who grew up having to care for needy parents, deeply empathise with Sophie's need for a social life and find this thread painful to engage with

While the 'Sophie's mums', who empathise with the mother, are very comfortable to stay on the thread arguing that teenagers don't really need to socialise with their peergroup and family caring should be prioritised

It seems there are a lot of Sophies out there

Ithica, classic post^^. Top marks. Well summed up. Yes I can totally relate to Sophie. I was her. And it's obvious we have a whole load of Sophie's mums on this thread too.

But god forbid we mention the elephant in the room that way too often people with MH issues simply do make horrible parents.

I had better add a standard disclaimer here, (don't want all the MH mums clutching their pearls in unison) not every person with MH issues is a bad parent, but many of them are.

Where I work there is a Young Carers group run by the council, they arrange respite and trips out. If Sophie is a young carer she might benefit from gerring in touch with such a group.

Just seen this post, and it is a very serious issue. The ongoing problem is going to be for Sophie; her mother is tightening control now (for whatever reason) and it will get worse as she and brother grow older and seek independence. Sophie seems to have a collection of kind and caring friends, (what a lovely idea the birthday sleepover was) and if they can possibly continue to support this girl with their friendship and make allowances for her home background through her school years this is the very best they can do. The refusal to have any form of birthday celebration at home, or compromise on picking up times are examples of mother's determination to allow nothing to break up her family unit. Unfortunately the more outsiders, friends, parents, school try to help the worse she will become. I know of one child, now an adult, who has not left his home for fifteen years, another who was forbidden to attend his sibling's wedding on pain of being thrown out of his house, already done to two older children; both caused by very possessive, controlling and mentally ill mothers; and of two siblings whose mother controlled every friendship throughout their school years and tried to continue at University; both rebelled, followed their own paths and have done extremely well.

Zzzzz I think is essential that children who are carers have social experiences. If our family life revolved around the child with a disability all the time his siblings would never have been to the cinema, never been to Pizza Hut, never had friends round etc etc. I think when a child has a caring role it is absolutely essential that these everyday events still happen - even if they take more planning. My children do plenty of trips as that's something that ds1 can do easily & has to do everyday sometimes they need Pizza Hut or the cinema or shopping or the theatre or tobogganing at the ski slope or some friends round or going to the beach to sit in one spot with a bucket & spade rather than walk - whatever - something where they are first rather than following their severely disabled brother around. We spend an awful lot of time making sure they do normal stuff.

In this case it's unclear whether the child concerned is a carer. But it seems she does want to attend the sleepover & is being prevented from doing so for reasons that are nothing to do with her. If this is the one oddity her Mother has (I have one - I hate my children eating grapes whole) then it's neither here nor there. She misses a sleepover - she'll survive - but if it's one of many things that this girl is doing then yes I think it's concerning & I think someone should be looking out for her - a normalish social life is important for teens - especially when they have extraordinary caring responsibilities.

I still do not think it's an issue for SS, but agree with the poster who suggested talking to school if there are other concerns. Certainly I'd keep an eye open & see whether she was prevented from attending other get togethers, if not then no worries, it's a one off, if yes then maybe time to talk to school.