To object to a compulsory residential school trip?

[TheDietStartsTomorrow]

My DS is starting secondary school in September. It's a different school from the one my older DC went to. This is a new school in its second year and the staff seem to have a lot of enthusiasm and a commitment to discipline, respect and high standards which is why I chose it for him.

The head talked about a no-opt policy for all pupils, indicating that everyone has to participate in everything regardless of their inclination, reasons or excuses. Because of this, they are quite firm about not making concessions for any pupils for any reasons whatsoover.

This brings us to the compulsory residential trip. It's three days in the Lake District, in November, just a couple of months after they start school. It's not entirely an educational trip- it's discussed as an opportunity to bond with other pupils and staff and get to know each other. My son, is not too keen to go for a number of reasons. He finds it very difficult to sleep in new places; sleeping in a tent seems to him, like the worse way to spend a night, never mind three; he has never been on a residential before and is very apprehensive about going away with people who are at the moment, still strangers to him; the school is very uncompromising on students individual needs and he feels will be forced to participate in activities that he doesn't want to; he will miss an important event at sports club he goes to outside of school that he is really looking forward to.

I, as his parent, also have some reservations. The school is totally uncompromising on faith issues and I feel that DS will be made to feel like he is different and mocked when he prays. The head teacher has also shown that he will not be very accommodating of his religious needs even though they are very simple requests (he needs a quiet corner of a library/classroom for 10 mins during their lunch break to pray during a school day and this request was not recieved very well by the head. That in itself, is another story and I want MNers opinion on that too in another thread so I can ascertain if we're being unreasonable).

I also feel that if he doesn't want to go, he shouldn't be forced to. There will be other opportunities to go on residentials when he is a little older and more familiar with his school teachers and by that time, his confidence will have hopefully grown so that he goes willingly.

So, AIBU to tell the head he will not be attending? Can the school impose this upon us if he doesn't want to go? Where do I stand and what advice would you give in such a situation?

TheDietStartsTomorrowFri 23-May-14 11:55:59

OP:
Gertrudepie I'm not at all trying to undermine the ethos of the school; I think the majority of the school ethos are positive and encourage a productive learning environment. I am trying to determine whether the school is within its right to insist that my DS participate in the residential school trip

Yes you are unermining the school's ethos. Its teachers have "commitment to discipline, respect and high standards", presumably the no opting out/special arrangements which the head teacher has mentioned contribute heavily to this but you want your son to opt out of the residential trip and special arrangements making for his prayers.

I'm not saying you're wrong by the way - I think the school sounds weird, but if that's the way the school operates you either suck it up or think about another school. This won't be the only battle you have.

I find it odd that you says "sleeping in a tent seems to him, like the worse watch to spend a night" yet you have been to the Lakes as a family and camped.
I also can't understand why you don't value this trip as much as formal sit down education? If you son has not been on a school trip in his junior years then he has missed out and needs this to give him some new life experiences. At our first primary school they would take the reception children on a residential-4 and 5 yr olds spent 4 nights away from home. Granted it was only 10 minutes away from the school so if there were any major wobbles the kids could be collected, or even go as day participants. My DS1 moved schools mid term at the age of 8 (not away from the aforementioned school as we had by then moved house). He had been bullied for sometime and had very low confidence. However the weekend of his first week at the new school was that year's activity weekend. He had been at the school for 4 days before he went away for 3 nights. He survived-he came home happy and enthusing about all the things they had done.
Much as your son (and yourself) may hate the idea of the trip, for other pupils it will be fabulous opportunity. They however may hate the prospect of sitting through a terms worth of maths, or DT or music. Does that mean their parents should want to opt out of those?
I think you should consider a different school. The religious issues alone sound like they may cause you a headache throughout and the head isn't at all sympathetic to your wishes which is a shame. But if this problem is cropping up so early on in your DS's 5 (or more) years at the school, think what other things will happen that you don't agree with and will be compulsory for your son to get involved with.
I think YABU. Plan to join in or search for a more suitable school to save more anguish in the future.

op It isn't prejudicial against faith. Prejudice would be to refuse those actively practising a religion entry to the school.

Alisvolatpropiis Prejudice is thoughts and opinion
Discrimination is acting on those prejudices

I would have thought though that by now, the school would have some sort of contingency for the event of a student of a different religion starting and think it shameful that they are making an issue about it.

I have to say, with my DofE leader hat on, is that there's a reason why the DofE expedition season is end of March - October: outside those months the days are too short and the nights are too cold for safety. We would have to take a winter rather than a summer Mountain Leader to an area like the Lakes for a November expedition - are the school taking/hiring appropriately qualified staff? And as someone mentioned up thread, will they be providing all-season sleeping bags? When we go on expedition to the Lakes in March we have been into minus figures for night-time temperatures. And while our DofE particiants (like scouts) have chosen to take part, I would not run a compulsory camping trip under those conditions. Madness.

I am all for kids going on residential trips and moving out of their comfort zone and were this being held at an outward bound activity centre, I'd be all for it. But camping in November will be miserable and potentially unsafe unless the kit is of a very high standard.

shazama

OP says "The school is totally uncompromising on faith issues" so they won't have a contingency for students of a different religion. They don't want one.

Polar, I am surprised at your comment. I have camped as a child in very cold conditions, including one memorable weekend when it snowed while we were there. It was fine.

I am assuming it is an outward bounds place, so any walks would be led by qualified staff.

I would also clarify what is meant by camping. I went on school trips where there were permanent tents with simple beds, and some insulation. Some large group tents, even come with electricity and heating.

"
pointy, you guessed right; it is a 'my way or highway' free school. The head actually said that to us as soon as I brought up the subject of praying during his break. He first response was 'If you don't like the way we do things here, then maybe you should go to another school.'."

Legally they can't do that as its discrimination.

Alisvolatpropiis schools have to follow the european human rights act. They have to make reasonable provision for children who want to follow a faith. My son's school has a quiet room set aside at lunch time. Any child can pray there and its not just Muslim children. It is off the special needs unit so that children cannot just chat in there. The room is multi purpose and has other uses at different times of day.

There is a legal right of children to hold religious beliefs, and any restriction on manifesting those (e.g., in prayer) must be proportionate and have legitimate purpose.

www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldjudgmt/jd060322/begum-2.htm

The school is allowed to restrict religious practice, but must do be reasonable, not arbitrary.

So I would wonder if it was more this kind of thing where the tents are really semi permanent structures?

www.lakesideymca.co.uk/about-us/accommodation/tented-villages/

Calmet - when you camped as a child, were you responsible for the safety and welfare of a number of children who weren't your own? Did you have to fill in a whole range of Risk Assessments before camping? Did you have to provide evidence that your camping trip was staffed with appropriately qualified leaders and that your kit was of an appropriate standard for the conditions? Did you risk being sued if all of this wasn't done and something happened?

I don't think anecdotal evidence of what you did as a child which turned out 'fine' really qualifies you to comment on what I have to do as a DofE leader taking young people camping and walking in wild country.

But do get in touch with the DofE organisation to tell them that their guidance on appropriate times to complete the expedition safely is rubbish based on your superior knowledge, won't you?

LeBear - No need to be bloody snarky. I said I was surprised, not that you were wrong. FFs

Do you have a history LeBear of being so bloody rude on here?

Of course your DS should go on the school trip, withdrawing him from it will further isolate his from his schoolmates.
However, the intolerance of praying and your DS's faith is unacceptable.
I would be tempted to agree to him going on the understanding that the school will positively accept and support his religious needs while away overnight.

MrsCakesPremonition, a beautifully concise summing up, and I totally agree with you.

Not going on a residential does not isolate a child from his or her classmates.

In my experience, using the word compulsory is just a way of avoiding non attendance from children who just don't really fancy it. Our Y7 week long residential in France is 'compulsory' because it's obviously hugely beneficial to the children's education (total language immersion week at an outward bounds centre). However, there are occasionally (fewer than one a year) children who really don't want to go and they aren't forced into it. They just join Y6 for a week.

Freckles - 4 night away from home for Reception aged children! Wow, I've never heard of that. I really wouldn't want to be one of those members of staff!!

I think 11 is far too old to be experiencing a first time away from home without family but also that 4 is a tad young. At our school the first residential is Y4 and that seems to work well. Just weekends until Y7 and 8 who both get a week.

If every other child in the year group is going, as part of a getting to know each other better, I think it does potentially isolate them. The children will be talking about things that happened on teh residential, for weeks afterwards.

calmet My DD1 did not go on her Y7 residential. She was not 'isolated' from the rest of the cohort. Although several of them congratulated her on avoiding it and wished they had had the foresight to do that too.

November? Well i got freezing camping in may.
Not everyone has good circulation.
I would have hypothermia.

Other than that yes it sounds great.

manic outward bounds centre And there, for many kids, especially ones with certain SEN issues, is your problem.

naty - I linked uo above to a place in the Lake District that has permanent tents. I stayed somewhere like this on one school trip. They ahve basic permanent beds, insulation, and some even have electricity or heating. It may be this kind of tent they are staying in.

I don't know if it is to do with planning permission that enough of a tent is kept that they can still call them tents? Or maybe just cheaper to provide?

naty Both my DD's have conditions which mean they can't regulate their body temperatures like most people can. They get hypothermic very easily, they also get heatstroke when most people wouldn't. This isn't a problem in ordinary life. It can be on residentials (or even non residential activity days - last summer DD2 had hypothermia and heatstroke (the latter involving blue lighting to hospital and several hours of observation, tests etc) in the same week. I'd say you couldn't have predicted that either thing would happen except for, of course, since her school is aware of her condition they should have anticipated it. But didn't. And exacerbated both issues by not recognising the fairly obvious deteriorations. Had she been away, at a residential, it would have been very tricky.

ExacCerbated. Bloody fingers.

I'm surprised he's not been away already. DD's school has been sending them to an outward bound place since Year 4. She too will be going to Lake District in September when she goes back in September (Year 7) - they actually miss the last couple of days of their summer holiday. It's compulsory and we just suck it up because it's what this school's education system is all about and it seems to work.