This Morning - totally one sided fucking slot on Grandparents being denied contact

[trashcanjunkie]

God I'm fuming watching this. This Morning have done a section on parents denying contact to the grandparents. The whole thing has focused on how cruel and unfair it is for parents to do it. They've had a succession of gps on who've had contact cut. They made NO FUCKING attempt to acknowledge the thousands of people who felt they had no choice than to go nc as the relationship with gps was/is utterly toxic and no matter what they tried it always would be.

The idea that gp can get rights to someone else's child is astonishing. And we are exactly that - someone else. The parent has presumably reached 18 so is a completely separate legal individual. AFAIC, a parent loses rights over their children at 18, so it seems illogical that this form of interference/control can then be re-exerted if the now adult offspring chooses to become a parent themselves.

Legal action for access amounts to forcing their way into a family's life contrary to wishes of the actual parents. I can't see how the aimplications of "that" are in a child's interest. No wonder people feel forced to leave the jurisdiction.

I'd like to see an article 8 ECHR challenge on this (right to a private and family life.)

Spot on petrasmummy, the idea that by becoming a parent you are then somehow back to being a child in the eyes of the law also touches on some of the harder emotional side of this - issues of obligation, guilt. ECHR would undoubtedly protect those of us in this situation, surely?

I'd like to think so Cloggal, but it's getting there that's the problem. :(

I think the people who appear on TV and make a big noise about wanting to see grandchildren are completely missing the point of how the law works. the law is there for the benefit of children so that they don't lose a significant and positive person in their lives. Grandparents only have the right to ask to appeal - in other words they can ask if they can ask. They would then have to prove that they played a significant and positive role in their grandchild's life and that not seeing them would upset/harm the grandchild.

It is the same approach as there is with establishing parental contact - what is in the best interests of the child.

So, if a grandparent really is a positive person for the child to see, then the court could rule that there will be contact. That doesn't mean that the grandparent has any kind of legal right at all. As someone said upthread, they adults have a responsibility to raise the kid as best they can, and that means including loving adults. It does not give any of the adults a right to see the child, and they should remember that.

I cannot allow her to see my children because of the vile things she would say about and to me in front of them. It would be damaging for DC.

This is exactly what would happen if I broke my NC.

Also my 'D'M had clear favouritism for DD but ignored little DS :( She's toxic but that doesn't stop the family siding with her and sending me shitty messages on Facefuck.

I have yet to meet a parent that cut off a grand parent from seeing their child without a good reason for it. Shit parents turn into shit grandparents.

This is exactly why my mother died without ever meeting my DD.

Maybe I am unusual because the grandparents not in our life don't want to see us :o and they give it all, oh owllady is awful she won't let us see them tripe, but the initial estrangement was instigated by them, not me. I had therapy for a while as I was a state, but I no longer feel guilty. The children know, they don't seem confused by anything and are happy as things are.

WINDCHIME, I don't know who posted that first. But just because you haven't met them doesn't mean they don't exist.

You're right cjelh, there will be grandparents out there who have been unfairly cut off. My heart goes out to them sincerely.

But the stories on this thread alone show why there cannot be automatic right of access.

I'd never say that there should be automatic right of access. whatever the reasons there are reasons and legislation isn't the answer.

I agree completely.

But I think the calls for these rights on the programme is why people are feeling like this is about them when it wasn't meant as such. It certainly made me feel a bit under attack, which I know is from my own fear rather than the fault of the show. I said upthread I completely understand why it was one sided, it was a spotlight on one cause - but it was hard, very hard when I know my MIL could well have called up and been given the advice 'don't give up' when the harassment file on her grows bigger every day. I think it could have been handled better.

The parent has presumably reached 18 so is a completely separate legal individual. AFAIC, a parent loses rights over their children at 18, so it seems illogical that this form of interference/control can then be re-exerted if the now adult offspring chooses to become a parent themselves

spot on.

So, if a grandparent really is a positive person for the child to see, then the court could rule that there will be contact

Yes but who decides this? How does one explain intricacies of family life to a bored old judge who has no experience of it?

I mean trying to explain our situation would be a nightmare, unless you have clear cut issues of violence etc...

not read the whole thread but why won't the grandparents try to sort things with their children first? if my mom had said im sorry im not leaving my boyfriend (i never asked her to do this) but i will not have him in my grandchildrens life i will see them without him im sorry there has been trouble my reply would have been im sorry too lets work this out she tried to run me over instead so she has not seen her grandchildren for 5 years she hasn't even met my baby its sad but really i gave her every option

Has anyone done a study on whether contact with grandparents against the parents' wishes is beneficial to children? The big argument for court orders to ensure that the RP allows the NRP contact is because having regular contact with your own parents has been shown to be beneficial unless they are really abusive/neglectful.

Mumsnet has taught me that things are never black and white . I cut contact with my mil because she is a cruel and selfish woman. If that makes me a bad person, so be it

However, if you met my mil she would turn on the waterworks and claim that she had not done anything wrong.
The woman could give Meryl Streep a run for her money.

Well said Noddy. I see my grandson once a week when my DS has contact. I make sure he never feels left out because I see my other grandchildren much more and I pay for some of his out of school activities. I know his other grandparents see him almost every day. I do keep contact with his mum and I have told her if she is ever stuck for a sitter I am available. Some of my family no longer see her because of things she has said and done but I know as DGS mother she will always be part of our lives.

Good on you sandgrown. Your dgs will reap the benefit.

not read the whole thread but why won't the grandparents try to sort things with their children first?

Usually because they are stubborn and entrenched and will not concede any issues or back down, and now they want to go over their own childrens heads to the GC!

Love the idea that its 'usually' gp at fault> like Denise in the programme I think some people will have a shock when the dcs grow up

Yup, pils are currently doing the same thing. They have treated dh disgustingly for most of his life, and he has now cut them out of our lives. In their heads, dh is the nasty one and I'm his evil accomplice. They have always been there for him apparently, and haven't done anything wrong. They are enjoying spinning this tale to anyone who will listen.

I don't care what they say, they aren't bringing their dysfunctional drama into my dds life and they aren't causing dh anymore stress which affects her too.

Their recent game is to try and cause problems between dh and I by spreading lies. If they loved dd why would they want her parents to argue?? Apparently dh lies to me all the time, I don't have a clue about what sort of person he really is. They have made up endless crap to cause issues and we arent putting up with it anymore.

cjelh if my DC feel that they no longer wish to have me in their life, or their children's lives, when they are adults I will seriously consider that something went wrong somewhere with my parenting and will do my utmost to make amends with them and ensure they know I love them. However old they are, they will still be my children.

I would not blame my DC, accuse them of lies and of being mad, turn the whole family against them whilst bemoaning the unforgivable pain and hurt they had caused me and then try to get to the grandchildren anyway by subterfuge and emotional blackmail but hey, that's just me!

I will seriously consider that something went wrong somewhere with my parenting and will do my utmost to make amends with them and ensure they know I love them

same here, I do wonder if most of these problem GP genuinely do not like their own children...

I too, if I did like my DC still by the time they had DC I would be doing everything to make things right, go to counselling get subjective opinions etc....

I would not hound them but I would try and keep going with tokens at least ..presents at appropriate times and so on, and yes, keep telling them I love them..and I am sorry!

turn the whole family against them whilst bemoaning the unforgivable pain and hurt they had caused me and then try to get to the grandchildren anyway by subterfuge and emotional blackmail but hey, that's just me!

Yes us too, we have had this, I was told I was taking my DH away from his family, but when he invites his wider family to visit us....guess who stops them!

I have bitten my tongue nearly through the other side sometimes with my dcs(they are 31 and 29) but can assure you that sometimes there has been nothing wrong with my parenting apart from them not being able to get there own way!!! Or they have other stresses on their lives and take it out on those closest to them. Imagine toddler tantrums but caused by school stress or job pressure.

They are not perfect either so go ahead and think everything good is because you were great and everything bad is because you did something wrong but that really isn't true!!!
I now have teenage grandchildren as well and see them all several times a week with no suggestions of a rift, but you are unrealistic if you think you have that much control on you dcs.
If they all became drug using criminals would it be your fault?
If they became 'perfect' people would that be because of what you did- I'm afraid you aren't allowing for other influences, Its not all about you.