Boys in girls' clothing - how far is too far?

[lecce]

Before I start, I want to make it clear that I am not looking for congratulations for being a 'liberal parent.' This post is a genuine request for advice and, yes, it's here partly for traffic, but I am certainly asking whether I am, or would be, UR to be going as far as I am.

DS2 (nearly 5, YR) has been into the princess dresses, pink accessories etc for a couple of years now. It shows no signs of abating, but shifts focus - has gone through Hello Kitty, female Horrible Histories characters, Frozen, Paloma Faith...

His latest craze is a girls' school uniform summer dress, which we finally gave in and got him at the weekend. He wants to wear it in the evenings and at weekends. We discussed with him the risk of running into classmates, but he insists he doesn't mind if they comment/laugh.

This is what concerns me - the reactions of peers. He is very shy and seems to have only one friend in his class. She was at nursery with him and the friendship has continued, but, other than her, the only people from school he mentions are girls two or three years older than him, who enjoy babying him and find him 'cute' - (he is ). I have taken him to a few parties lately and there was no interaction with anyone other than this girl.

He has his own party in July and envisages himself singing along to Paloma Faith in his best dress while others, I don't know - join in? Watch in admiration? I don't know how to balance giving him a party he actually wants, and ensuring that others enjoy it/ don't spend it laughing at him. I know he has had some comments from people at school, but he has never really seemed upset by them, and, afaik, they haven't come from his classmates.

A big part of me thinks giving him the message that what he likes isn't 'right' will damage his confidence, not improve it, but another part thinks I am just allowing him to make things more difficult for himself. Even my mother (very non-judgey non-interfering) gave an awkward silence when I told her about it on the phone, and I know that when she and my Dad visit next week, there will be comments from him.

DS wears nothing but one of the three dresses he has in his free time. His teachers say he is coming out of his shell, and that they see him as 'quietly confident'. We are trying a variety of things to build confidence, but, overall, WIBU to just continue as we are and see how it develops

I wanted to be a boy until I was about 9. I wouldn't wear girls clothes and had my hair cut short; even refused to answer to my name and called myself boys names! Guess what? My parents let me be who I wanted to be. And guess what - I grew out of it. By early teens I was quite happy to be a girl! But if I hadn't - would it really matter? And why is it more socially acceptable that way round?

Seriously, let him carry on and don't worry about it. He will be fine. Showing him that you support him being who he wants to be will do wonders for his self esteem in the long run, regardless of whether it continues or not.

I sometimes think of those who lose parts of their limbs. They can still "feel" their missing leg.
I wonder whether whether male and female parts go further in some way than merely the obvious parts.

That is totally different. You still feel missing limbs because of the neural pathways set up to your brain. We understand physically why this happens.

I think it's awesome that he wants to have a party like that! And for a shy kid to want to sing in front of everyone is a big step. (And, by the way, so much cooler than any of my kiddie parties. He'll probably grow up to be a huge music star).

Maybe if something is said that bothers him you could use that occasion to explain to him (in language he can understand, obviously) that some people are a bit weird and have strange, essentialist ideas about gender - but that this shouldn't stop him doing anything he feels like doing. I think that, in essence is REAL confidence - it's not being an extrovert and having 800 Facebook friends, it's having the calm faith in yourself to do what you want to do, regardless of how it's perceived.

So why cant it be exactly the same for sex organs?
Just because it hasnt been discovered yet, doesnt mean that it is not true.

Seems an extremely logical jump to make if you ask me.

It's a pity that boys liking "girly" things is such an issue and worried about but it's not a problem when it's girl who like boys toys and clothes.
My DD had a Thomas the tank bedroom, preferred boys toys and from age 3 refused to wear dresses and anything pink and girly so wore clothes bought from the boys section. It never even occurred to me to worry about it and I can't remember anyone else ever commenting negatively about it.
She is now 16 and still will not wear dresses and some of her clothes are boys and most of the rest are gender neutral (she didn't go to her school prom as all that dressing up was not her thing). It has never been a problem her being a female who likes boys stuff (and she has a lovely boyfriend so no confusion there) it's such a shame that it can't be the same for boys.

Kim, because the feeling that a limb is still there, is because a limb did actually used to be there. Peopel born without a limb, do not feel as if there is one there.

It seems that we may be talking at cross purposes.

I wonder whether whether male and female parts go further in some way than merely the obvious parts.

I am still talking about this.

We know that 90% of a woman's clitoris, is internal.

Can't believe the number of people saying one should limit and change a child's chosen behaviour to appease potential bullies.

'Someone said in a perfect world a child could wear whatever they wanted, but this in't a perfect world'

I agree...so lets make this world better rather than chopping off the bits of our children's personalities that don't fit.

Its our choice to make.

My DS is five and is only just losing his penchant for pink, sequins and glitter. He refused to wear his sisters cast off purple sparkly wellies today as they are "for girls" where last year he had them on at every available opportunity. He still wanted her navy blue with purple and pink polka dots though, so all innocence is not lost!

I have always just let him wear what he wants, when he wants, and he lived for a time in tights and leggings, with the odd dress thrown in and he loved our Disney Princess dress up stuff (as well as Spiderman etc).

Your DS seems to be taking it to a different level though since he will only wear dresses when out of uniform. However, I would be inclined to let him be who he wants to be for the minute (as others have said, other boys will be doing the same at school) and don't make a big deal of it. He is who he is, and no good will come of trying to change him, just make sure he has access to all his clothes so he can make a choice. (Just wondering whether his jeans and t-shirts are hung up and difficult to get at, where the dresses are in the dress up box and easier to get at?) And be there for to explain if he encounters any teasing at school.

I'm fairly relaxed about these things, and stress that colours are colours and aren't specifically for boys or girls, tell DS that some boys/men like to wear dresses and make-up just like girls like to wear trousers, but don't make a big deal of it.

Its tricky though as society screams blue for boys/pink for girls all the time (went to try and buy a gender neutral baby gift today and it was either pink/purple/glitter, blue/green/dull or beige. Who, in their right mind puts a baby in beige? So we bought some plain vests and made our own primary colour appliques and sewed them, rather badly, on)

Well IceBeing, that's certainly easy for you to say when its somebody elses child you're advocating is set up for years of abuse.

yes but I am hopefully saving lots and lots of other children years of abuse in the future when people get more used to the idea and start changing the bullies rather than those who are slightly different from average.

castillo do you think parents should do the work for bullies and conformist society by crushing their children's spirits in the home? My views on this have changed somewhat since the DCs were little. As I see their personalities more clearly, I realise that I want them to know that they are loved and cherished at home for who they are, no matter what is going on in their lives outside of home. If bullies are going to call them names or poke fun at them for something, they certainly won't have heard it from me as well.

I think you've done exactly the right thing. You've explained that other children may make fun of him but he's still made a choice to wear dresses. Power to him. I wish I was that bloody confident.

I think the talk of transgender issues etc is daft at this age. What point is there to counselling at this age? you're not going to be able to talk him round if he is transgender or change how his mind works. Allowing him to be who he wants to be and supporting him and loving him and celebrating his choices would be the way to go for me.

If he were to be transgender then this childhood will lead to self-acceptance because you have accepted him for who he is.

He sounds like a brilliant, interesting, quirky, confident little boy who is very lucky to have parents who love him for who he is.

I am watching Conchita Wurst on the One Show as I read this. And the (largely) supportive comments on this thread give me hope that as a society we are becoming more accepting and issues like this will not be such a problem for youngsters in the future. Change is possible.