Absolutely furious with parents of DD's non-contact father. Where to go from here?

[chesterberry]

My ex-partner left me before my DD was born in August of last year. We had been in a long-term relationship but the pregnancy was not planned and he did not accept the idea of becoming a father at all. He tried to force me into an abortion and when I refused this he made threats towards me and the baby and said he wished I would miscarriage. He then changed tactics and denied the baby could possibly be his before moving back to his home town and leaving me alone and pregnant.

Aside from me emailing him once to announce the birth of our DD there has been no contact between us since and he is not on the birth certificate, however his parents asked to still be involved. They have been mostly supportive of me and I am in regular contact with them. They come down to visit us (they live several hours drive away) once every month or so for the day and now my DD is no longer ebf the last few times they've visited they've taken her out for a few hours to give me some time to myself. They are lovely with her, my DD is happy with them and I am pleased she can have a relationship with her paternal family.

However I have just found out they have breached my trust in a huge way. My ex-partner and I have a lot of mutual friends and today I was having lunch with one of them. She asked me whether my ex was now in contact. I said no and asked why she thought that and she said because of the picture on his facebook. I didn't know what she meant (I have deleted him from facebook) and she pulled up the picture to show me. It's a picture of my DD with her paternal grandmother in a T-shirt which says 'Daddy's Little Princess.' My ex has been tagged in it. It's been posted by my ex's father (who I'm not facebook friends with) and I'm unable to see the photo from my facebook account.

I don't know if I'm over-reacting but I feel absolutely furious that they that they have broken my trust like this. This was clearly something premeditated as they had to go and buy the T-shirt and then secretly photograph my daughter and post it without me knowing. They have in the past expressed disappointment in their son and expressed they wished he would accept our DD as his. They know some of the story regarding us breaking up although not that he made threats towards me or his wishing I'd miscarry.

I know I was probably being unreasonable but on seeing this photo in the anger of the moment I sent my DD's grandmother a message in which I have essentially told her she will never see my DD again. I don't know what their motives are or what my ex thinks about this but I do not want him to have contact with our daughter, the person he became on finding out I was pregnant was not the man I was in love with, he made threats towards us and I am terrified if he was in contact with our daughter he would hurt her. I know legally he has a right to see her but I am dismayed that they are encouraging him to acknowledge her, I'd prefer his apathy really. I also no longer feel I could trust them to have my daughter on their own, I am terrified they might arrange to meet up with my ex and take her with them or something.

I don't know where to go from here. WIBU to simply cut all contact and refuse to let them see their grand-daughter? I know that's unfair on my DD but I don't see how I could ever leave her in their care again and I don't want to have to be there with them for supervised contact. I know that on the face of it what they have done, photographed their grand-daughter in a T-shirt without checking with her mum, is not a massive thing but I'm angry that they tried to hide this from me and that they are clearly trying to get their son to have contact with our DD. Maybe I am over-reacting, I don't know. Any advice would be welcomed, thank you.

It's not that my own parents can't be arsed. My parents do see my daughter and they have a good relationship with her. They do not make the four-hour drive to see my DD for the day like my DD's paternal grandparents but then I don't think that is unreasonable considering they both work full-time. I also think my parents are secure in their relationship with both me and my DD and so don't feel the need to make a big deal out of visiting us. I think that considering the distances one weekend every 6 weeks is reasonable whilst my daughter is a baby. I originally only envisaged seeing them 3 or 4 times a year (as I used to see my grandparents), to me that seems entirely reasonable as that was the norm for me and my grandparents who lived long distances from me. I appreciate to people who grew up in the same town as their grandparents and saw them regularly that may seem very infrequent. To me the current frequency they are seeing my DD seems like a lot for grandparents although I appreciate to some families it might not seem like very much.

I am struggling to find the balance and I do somewhat resent that it all falls on me, I want to do what is best for my DD but equally I have to consider myself as well. Most of the time it is just me and my DD and if people are making my life difficult they are by consequence making her life difficult. This situation is difficult for me and I know I have not been as patient or calm or focused with my daughter today as I would be usually and of course that does have an effect on her. I want her to have a relationship with her paternal family but not if it is going to have a detrimental effect on our lives. Currently they are causing me a lot of stress and anxiety and I don't think it is wrong for me to want to limit how often we are exposed to that. I'm not saying I am going to cut them off but the current contact is not working for me (and to be honest I don't see how it is working for them considering the travelling involved) and I don't think it is unreasonable to try and change it to something that works better for everybody. I also think that whilst it might be unfair on my DD's grandparents to limit their contact I don't feel it is going to be unfair on my DD in the long term. If I was to cut them out then yes, I can definitely see why that would be unfair, but I can't really see her turning around in the future and asking why she could only see them every 6 weeks instead of every month as a baby/toddler. Obviously as soon as she is old enough to make the decision herself I will go with that and if she wants more frequent contact when she is a child we will try and make that work.

I think you're doing the right thing OP. You sound like a lovely person who doesn't deserve all that's happened. Bear in mind that your GPs could (albeit sneakily) have been trying to help you. It must be difficult to see a lone parent bearing heavy burdens and know it's your son's fault.

Is anyone else wondering if the 'DF' has met DD yet via the Grandparents - or is just my over suspicious mind?

Hi OP, wanted to step in and say having read your posts (but not all of everyone else's sorry) I think you're being more than generous in your proposed arrangements for them to see your dd. You're not obliged to allow them contact and quite frankly i find the whole t shirt thing really creepy! Why would they change her into a t shirt that is clearly bullshit and then change her back all for a photo?! I think it is less about shaming their son and more about wishful thinking over happy families.

Personally I don't think you have over reacted at all. If i was in your position I would be severing contact until they could prove that they were not going to attempt to undermine or bully you any further.

Stand your ground and they either like it or they can f#*k right off!!

The ex's parents raised a man who was capable of behaving in a disgusting & callous manner = strike one!

The ex's parents have shown themselves to be manipulative, & sneaky = strike 2!

It is simply common decency to ask a parent before putting up ANY photo on a public forum like facebook = strike 3!

In your shoes OP I'd insist that visit were cut down to once every 6 weeks, and that all visits for the next 12 months were to take place under supervision only. I'd also explain that in order to spare their feelings I hadn't previously felt the need to give them chapter & verse on their offspring's behavior, but it had now become clear to me that in order to protect my child it was now necessary to do so.

That may seem very harsh, but the only way I can see of protecting the child's relationship in the long term with what are obviously loving but deluded grandparents while at the same time setting clear boundaries around what is and what isn't acceptable behavior on their part.

As part of the painful boundary setting conversation that now needs to happen, you need as a matter of urgency to get the following across:-

If Daddy wants a relationship with his child in the future then the onus is upon him as a grown adult, and NOT upon his parents to initiate communication with his child's sole carer. It is then his responsibility and his alone to negotiate with you terms for contact with his child, maintenance and hopefully long term a parental role of his own. The grandparents have their own special relationship with your child to nurture and cherish. The two need to kept totally separate for EVERYONE's sake, most especially the poor child in the middle of it all.

I was in a similar situation, and now nearly a decade on, separating out the relationships and making all adults involved take ownership of their own s^&t means that DS has a good relationship with his watless Dad's extended family.

I am fairly confident that my DD hasn't met her father. Her grandparents have only taken her out without me four times and only for a few hours at a time so I don't think logistically it would be possible.

DD's father does know that the lines of communication are open and that I would not stop him from seeing DD if he genuinely wanted to and I felt she would be safe with him. His parents also know that. Up to now he has shown no interest but I am preparing myself for the possibility that he is beginning to acknowledge her as his and that he may wish to establish contact in the near future. I don't think I will feel happy with it if he does but if I believe it's in DD's best interests I will accept it and try and work out a way for him to see her without my having to see him if it's possible.

Thank you bochead. That sounds like good advice and I appreciate advice from someone who has been in a similar situation. I haven't had a reply from DD's grandmother yet although facebook tells me she's seen it. When I speak to them in addition to asking them not to put pictures online and telling them about their son's behaviour I will stipulate that their relationship as grandparents needs to be separate from their son's relationship (or lack of) as father. I think that is quite important and not something they are managing at the moment. I hope we can work this out, I over-reacted initially but nevertheless their behaviour was unacceptable. We haven't really talked properly about contact or what would be in everyone's best interests before, they kind of just say 'can we come x weekend' and I say yes or no but I think we need to formalise things a bit more and set up some boundaries to make sure we can both trust each other as I do appreciate whilst they have broken their trust in threatening to stop them seeing DD initially (a massive over-reaction on my part I admit) I have also broken their trust in me.

wombat unless your son threatened to throw his ex down the stairs to induce miscarriage, told his x to abort your grandchild, and then refused contact and to pay maintenance it's really not the same situation at all and I think you are well out of order to call op selfish.

Wombat - they were putting pressure on her to stop breast feeding just so they could have the baby over night who's selfish in that situation? and they put a massively inappropriate tshirt on her dd behind her back. They clearly knew it was inappropriate as they felt the need to swap it back before returning dd to the OP.

I don't think OP is being U at all.
Personally if I was happy otherwise with how they were I would continue contact with them but I wouldn't be letting them have my child alone for a while.
Their behaviour is a little worrying but not massively, maybe just a little controlling.

It's your call OP you know them and you know what vibes you get from them. There's a LOT to say for gut instinct

Interesting that you haven't had a response from DD's GM.

Only you can tell, chesterberry, but my gut feeling is that the acorn didn't fall far from the tree. It sounds to me that this is a family where "I do what I want" is perhaps part of the family dynamic.

My feeling is that what the grandparents did was shitty, and showed no respect for you.

Keeping the relationships separate stops the tendency for the adults to "take sides" and keeps the focus on being about what the child needs as time passes. It also gives the child freedom to confide in the adults as genuine trusted confidants when needed as the years go on. This may sound like I'm being overdramatic but if in future my then teenage son was in some of the awful situations you read about in the papers re bullying/sexual abuse/gang membership. I'd rather he could go to ANY significant loving adult in his life to ask for help rather than bottle it up iyswim.

Don't go on a guilt trip for flipping at the massive breach of trust involved in what they've done. Just be cool, calm, firm and collected from here on in. Every now and then a good burst of "I am Mama Bear hear me roar!" is needed to jolt some people out of their little fantasy world's and into the cold hard reality of what putting the child first in a broken family really entails. Your aim is to make the need to roar as sparing & infrequent as possible e.g You should only ever be pushed into that highly emotionally charged position once with any individual.

Have only read the OP, it seems they are trying to make their son take responsibility. Albeit they have done it in a bloody stupid way, you are right to be angry. I would maybe let them off the hook this once.

I totally understand why you reacted the way you did, they did behave in a very sneaky way, however it's a bit heavy to go non contact. Did you explain to them how ex treated you when you were pregnant, or his threats and abuse? I am sure if they were aware, they would be shocked!

I would be keeping a very close eye on them in future.

Putting photos on fb without my permission would irk me and I'd probably mention I'd rather they didn't but the t-shirt and tagging your ex in the photo, that's a whole other level!

Add to that, the fact that they wanted to you stop breastfeeding for their benefit. Not good.

I think they definitely need to be reminded of the situation and I would be asking questions about the fb photo. Do they often show ex photos of your DD? Or is this the first time? How does he react? I would be very concerned that they are building up to arranging for your ex to meet DD with them and this should only happen on your terms.

You definitely need to let them know how their son behaved towards you and your dd.

OP I totally agree with you that they have breached your trust and you are right to go back to supervised contact until you feel comfortable. I'd be wary of giving them any indication of when this might be. I also agree that you should tell them the full details about their son and ask them not to put photos of you DD online.

However, I think the frequency of visit is a separate issue and I'd be careful that it doesn't come across as another 'punishment' for the t shirt issue. I live similar distances from my parents and my in laws and we see each roughly every 6 weeks. Perhaps slightly less with my in laws. I think this is a reasonable frequency especially when you are working.

Could you cope with another couple of months of monthly visits then broach it with them in a "now I'm back at work, this isn't convenient for me so can we go to every 6 weeks but for the two days and we can pencil the weekend for the next 6 months into our diaries now?" way so it isn't linked to the t shirt issue.

They have made a big mistake and you are right to be upset. But if you tackle both issues now, in their minds it could look like they have had unsupervised visits withdrawn and visits cut by a third just for putting on a t shirt you didn't like. I think this could make your relationship with them very difficult in the future.

That said, I think what you do next will very much depend on their reply.

I'm astonished that you haven't yet told them the full story about the threats your Ex made- I remember your earlier thread, and the threats he made are horrifying. It's very sad that your Ex's parents suffered a loss and would be upset by what their son said, but they need to know the truth; any man who can make threats containing that degree of violence is not safe around your child, and his parents sound misguided and devious enough to try to set up contact without your knowledge.

Agree with the pp who said that the t-shirt photo is probably more to do, on their part, with wishful thinking and wanting people to think that their son is being a father to his daughter than any hope of shaming their son into behaving differently towards his daughter.

Given their demands and attempts to control and manipulate things in the past I fear OP that there is a very strong possibility that they will choose not to believe you when you tell them how their son behaved towards you.

I would tread very carefully with these people. They sound a bit of a nightmare.

Of course it's good for your DD to have extended family in her life but not if they don't have her best interests at heart and such things as telling you to stop breast feeding a tiny baby so they can play happy families overnight is a very good indication that the only people's interest they have in mind is their own.

Isn't it right about now that babies suddenly get all attached to their primary carer and will not be left? you may need to rethink contact anyway. (dd would not be left from 6 months to two years 6 months. it was a long time. she protested vehemently at being left with her father too. I think she was the exception rather than the rule though.)

Supervised contact only.
Sorry if you have answered this and I missed it, I was reading very quickly - but are you 100% sure they haven't taken your DD to SEE your ex on one of these occasions? That seems like a very, very weird t-shirt otherwise...I mean, I can see why you'd be furious anyway at ANY photo, but I find it hard to believe that they'd choose a "daddy's little princess" shirt unless he'd had actual contact.

I think you'd be being very kind and generous to allow even supervised contact, frankly. They're shit.

oh sorry, I do see that you said it was logistically unlikely.

I'm still not 100% convinced myself!

And YANBU. Grandparents have no "right" to see a grandchild, and it is NOT always in the best interest of a child to have a relationship with their grandparents.
Please don't feel you have over-reacted, OP. If anything, you have underreacted, by not being more careful to ensure your boundaries around DD are respected.

It seems like they were trying to play in his emotions. Not neessarily it was anything against you, OP. Maybe they were trying yo shame him in front if his friends and family.

I would be furious too. And I wouldn't be surprised if your ex had travelled with them and secretly seen your daughter - completely possible that he comes with them and then just doesn't come to yours with them to collect her.

What strikes me as odd about your posts is that you sound like you feel guilty and as though you're scared not to facilitate contact. Why? You owe your ex nothing - he wanted your child dead/unborn. His parents, whilst maybe well meaning, are clinging to a version of events that is fantasy. There is no happy family, their son is a cad and I think the time for them to know the full facts re his behaviour can't come soon enough.

I think you need to decide if you can cope with the mental anguish that is facilitating a relationship with the parents of someone who treated you so appallingly. Whilst it may have worked for a while, once you're back at work, why should you commit to one weekend in four being with them? My children don't see either of their sets of grandparents so often and DH and I are together! Also - looking to the future - what happens if you start a new relationship? Do you really want to be tied to this 1/4 agreement?

Given the issues you've had, the FB pics, the breach of trust, the trying to stop you BF, I'd be thinking about reducing the frequency of contact at the very least. Yes, your DD is their blood relative but if it hadn't been for you they'd have been none the wiser. It's up to their son to facilitate the relationship and if he can't be bothered, why should you? Surround your daughter with people who love her, blood relatives or not and she will be happy.