Absolutely furious with parents of DD's non-contact father. Where to go from here?

[chesterberry]

My ex-partner left me before my DD was born in August of last year. We had been in a long-term relationship but the pregnancy was not planned and he did not accept the idea of becoming a father at all. He tried to force me into an abortion and when I refused this he made threats towards me and the baby and said he wished I would miscarriage. He then changed tactics and denied the baby could possibly be his before moving back to his home town and leaving me alone and pregnant.

Aside from me emailing him once to announce the birth of our DD there has been no contact between us since and he is not on the birth certificate, however his parents asked to still be involved. They have been mostly supportive of me and I am in regular contact with them. They come down to visit us (they live several hours drive away) once every month or so for the day and now my DD is no longer ebf the last few times they've visited they've taken her out for a few hours to give me some time to myself. They are lovely with her, my DD is happy with them and I am pleased she can have a relationship with her paternal family.

However I have just found out they have breached my trust in a huge way. My ex-partner and I have a lot of mutual friends and today I was having lunch with one of them. She asked me whether my ex was now in contact. I said no and asked why she thought that and she said because of the picture on his facebook. I didn't know what she meant (I have deleted him from facebook) and she pulled up the picture to show me. It's a picture of my DD with her paternal grandmother in a T-shirt which says 'Daddy's Little Princess.' My ex has been tagged in it. It's been posted by my ex's father (who I'm not facebook friends with) and I'm unable to see the photo from my facebook account.

I don't know if I'm over-reacting but I feel absolutely furious that they that they have broken my trust like this. This was clearly something premeditated as they had to go and buy the T-shirt and then secretly photograph my daughter and post it without me knowing. They have in the past expressed disappointment in their son and expressed they wished he would accept our DD as his. They know some of the story regarding us breaking up although not that he made threats towards me or his wishing I'd miscarry.

I know I was probably being unreasonable but on seeing this photo in the anger of the moment I sent my DD's grandmother a message in which I have essentially told her she will never see my DD again. I don't know what their motives are or what my ex thinks about this but I do not want him to have contact with our daughter, the person he became on finding out I was pregnant was not the man I was in love with, he made threats towards us and I am terrified if he was in contact with our daughter he would hurt her. I know legally he has a right to see her but I am dismayed that they are encouraging him to acknowledge her, I'd prefer his apathy really. I also no longer feel I could trust them to have my daughter on their own, I am terrified they might arrange to meet up with my ex and take her with them or something.

I don't know where to go from here. WIBU to simply cut all contact and refuse to let them see their grand-daughter? I know that's unfair on my DD but I don't see how I could ever leave her in their care again and I don't want to have to be there with them for supervised contact. I know that on the face of it what they have done, photographed their grand-daughter in a T-shirt without checking with her mum, is not a massive thing but I'm angry that they tried to hide this from me and that they are clearly trying to get their son to have contact with our DD. Maybe I am over-reacting, I don't know. Any advice would be welcomed, thank you.

Any body who takes you child out for the day you have 100% trust them.

As you don't trust the PIL they can't take you child end off.

My all means talk to them and tell why your ex in longer in your life .

Your overreaction was perfectly understandable given the history. I overreacted in my post and I have no excuse

I think you should approach these as different issues at different times.

For now, discuss why the photo and t shirt upset you so much, and explain the full history with ex. I'm sure they will be deeply apologetic and will be mortified that their son behaved that way, although they might be a bit defensive at first as he is their son. Anyway, get that out of the way and set some ground rules for future contact. Perhaps discuss your concerns and how you could all address them, rather than just coming out with a list of rules.

Then after you've had a few successful visits, think about reducing the frequency if it's really a problem. You might find that it's still okay once you're back at work, you might even appreciate some time to yourself (assuming they are still going to be allowed to take her out) to get jobs done or to relax.

If you reduce the visits immediately they may feel they're being punished (being honest, is that partly motivating you to reduce visits?) and they may become resentful and less likely to follow your ground rules. Whereas if you have some visits in between, and wait and see what the situation is like once you've returned to work, they will hopefully understand if you do need to reduce visits.

It's lovely that they care about her and want to spend time with her, despite their son's rejection of her. As long as they don't endanger her in any way, the more people in her life who love her, the better :)

My daughter's paternal grandparents (and her father) live about 300 miles away - it takes them 5 hours to get here. They are not going to be able to pick her up if the school phone to say she is ill or take her for a doctor's appointment. That said I appreciate that they are going to a huge amount of effort to see her at the moment and that they care about her a great deal.

I think it is unfair to say that I am doing anything I can to take away her relationship with anybody outside of myself. I feel that I have done everything I can to ensure she has a good relationship with them, before she was born everybody was telling me (including people on mumsnet) I was crazy to try and maintain contact with them considering that their son was uninterested and that they were showing some controlling behaviour before she was born. However I did realise it was in the best interests of my daughter and that my feelings towards them (or my partner) weren't important and I have facilitated a relationship with them even when it was very difficult. It has not been easy for me to leave her in their care, when they first had her for a few hours I had never left her with anybody before and I was an anxious mess the whole time she was with them, but I knew I was doing the right thing by her in allowing them to have a relationship independently of me. I don't think this is all about me and I am not trying to stop her from having relationships with her paternal family. However, they have breached my trust and even if it is only in a small way I cannot brush it away as insignificant. I am also realistic, she is their first grandchild but it may be that in the future their children (my ex and his sister) may have children they do acknowledge as theirs and who live closer and the effort they are willing to go to to maintain a relationship with my DD may reduce.

I am her mum, I will never abandon my DD even if I have another 10 children. I cannot guarantee the same about anybody else and as such I am always going to put my relationship with my DD above her relationship with anyone else, at least whilst she is this small. I recognise as she gets older she will make her own choices about who she spends her time with and she can decide how much time she sees her grandparents. But once I return to work I will want to spend as much time outside of that with her as possible outside. That doesn't mean I am going to sabotage her relationships with other people but it does mean that we will have less free-time to manage. I don't think contact every six weeks or so is unreasonable, especially considering the circumstances. That is more than I ever saw my grandparents when I was a baby and I don't resent my parents or wish I'd seen them more frequently.

The message on the t-shirt was pretty offensive really a better one would be "Daddy wanted to abort me" perhaps, so I can see why you would feel betrayed.

I wonder whether his parents know the whole story about him pressuring you to abort, abandoning you pregnant and alone to return to his parents, suggesting that the baby was not his anyway, and not attending when you registered the birth (so his name is not on the bc).

I am certain they will be more understanding of your reaction if they know these facts. Don't stop them having a relationship with their grandchild though, but tell them that no more pics of baby on fb.

Shamelessly place marking for now...

Nothing to add OP but I think you sound very reasonable considering the circumstances. My IL who I love dearly took a long time to understand why I didnt want to leave DD with them. It was nothing personal but especially when I went back to work, I wanted to spend as much time as possible with DD.

I would be very angry. I can't stand Facebook and would be very annoyed if photos of me were put on it let alone of my baby.

"Daddy's Little Princess" is nauseating too.

So far as continuing contact I would set out rules that they do not have permission to post photographs of your daughter on any social media site; whether you can trust therm, I don't know.

I really don't think the parents know the whole story. Write to them. Apologise for over reacting but then explain how he changed when you were pregnant. Say you are happy to have them in your lives but have ongoing concerns about ex.

I think this info was possibly in the deleted post, but was your DDs father there, or was he just tagged in the photo? It seems a bit strange that he's left himself tagged in the photo if he's not willing to admit he's her father.

I'm not sure if them knowing the whole story is relevant tbh.
As far as they know he is not interested, yet they are trying to pretend he is.
Not necessary!

I think the GP are going to great lengths to see your DD and I don't think once a month is much to ask tbh considering they are doing all the travelling. If you have to spend the day with them as you no longer trust them so be it at least then your DD is still seeing them.

You didn't see your GP as there was less opportunity to and that's ok for you but your DD has the chance to see them once a month and you are removing that for reasons I don't understand? You get to be with DD 7 nights a week and 3 full weekends a month surely giving up 1 day a month is not such a big deal.

In the future their efforts to maintain contact may reduce but at least you can explain to your daughter you did all you could if she questions their absence in later life. Where as if you go NC or reduce it/make it difficult for them to have contact you will have to say to her that you did that because 1 day a month was too much and they upset you because they sent a photo of you to your father wearing an I love Daddy t-shirt.

My ex was not in the photo, he was tagged in the photo as the T-shirt. I agree that it seems strange he's left himself tagged in the photo considering up until now he had always denied she was his (although he has no reason to question her paternity and I'm sure he knows that she is his.). One of the reasons this has made me so anxious is that he hasn't removed the tag which makes me think maybe he is beginning to acknowledge he is her father. If he is ready and willing to make the effort to form a loving bond with my DD then, whilst it would be very difficult for me initially, of course I would help facilitate that for her sake. I miss him as well and there is a part of me which does sometimes dream of him coming back and apologising and us being a family. I know that is ridiculous but I was blissfully in love with him before this and it's hard to turn that off.

My worry is not that he is beginning to acknowledge her as his because he wants to be a father but that he is being pushed into it by his parents against his will and that his relationship with her will be solely out of duty or because it becomes easier to just do what they want. He currently has nothing to do with our DD (no contact, no maintenance) and I am worried if he starts to see her for any reason other than a true, inherent desire to be her father he will begin to resent her or to see her as a burden. Obviously being a parent is not easy and I am scared about how he would cope with the downs. I don't think he would ever hurt her but 18-months ago I wouldn't have believed we wouldn't still be together or that he would have acted in the way he did towards me when I was pregnant. He made me see there was a different side to him, I don't think I could trust him again (although appreciate I may have to in the future for my DD's sake) and I guess this is just bringing up a painful and sometimes stressful situation I don't really think about day-to-day.

DS's dad left when I was pregnant too. I've maintained a relationship with some of his family for DS's sake, esp as he has cousins. It can be difficult. In the end it'll be worth it.

I personally wouldn't be bothered by photos on fb. I was bothered when ex had some printed out and put up in his house despite not seeing him, paying the ordered CSA all this time etc....

The t shirt is a bit of a joke though! I remember buying vests etc and couldn't buy certain packs as they said daddy's little man or something and it gave me the rage! As if I'd let DS wear that!

I think you should message back saying sorry you flew off the handle but after the way ex has treated you and DC the t shirt seemed like a slap in the face. You want to keep contact between them but if ex is going to have any part, however small, in your DC's life then you need to be fully informed beforehand so you can judge what is best.

Am I the only one that finds the t shirt thing really strange? They only have your DD alone for a few hours. So theyve taken her out, changed her t shirt and taken a picture. Then changed her clothes back when bringing her back to you. That's weird and clearly sneaky.

I would have reacted the same way as you. You panicked.

And I'm pretty sure your ex has no legal rights at the moment given that he isn't on the birth certificate and has had no involvement.

Only you know if you can trust your DDs grandparents, and if it's worth continuing a relationship for your DDs sake.

I think that 12 times a year for a day is def not way too much contact, if you said every two weeks fair enough but once a month too much is yabu.

They made a mistake. They are probably desperate for their son to acknowledge a granddaughter which they obviously adore and love very much to make an effort to travel and see her.

You could try putting your point over in a letter, explaining your feelings if you can't do face to face or even an email.

Everyone makes mistakes and they deserve a second chance esp if they have been so good in the past. I really hope you keep contact once a month as it's sounds like things were going so well until they made this huge error of judgement. I guess as a mum to boys myself and probably a mil to be I can see how grandparents could get a little desperate and try to win their son over. They probably don't understand how their son could not want to be involved in his daughters life when they think do much of her.

Well I'm upset because she is not her daddy's princess, he doesn't even recognise her as his daughter. Her 'daddy' threatened to throw me down the stairs in the hope I'd miscarry if I refused to have an abortion. I contacted him when she was born to give him the chance to be involved and he ignored it. Under the circumstances I think the T-shirt was grossly inappropriate. That said I appreciate his parents don't know our history and so it was not their fault.

My DD's grandparents would be willing to see her every week if I would agree to They tried to persuade me to give up ebf before my DD was 6 months old so that they didn't have to wait to take her out without me there and are already suggesting overnight contact (which I am refusing). If she asks and if she is upset that she didn't see them more often I will have to explain to my DD when she is older why I didn't let her spend time with her grandparents every weekend or overnight because I felt it was too much, but at some point surely as parent I have the right to draw the line? Seeing them once a month has been just about doable whilst I was on maternity leave, however I feel it will be too much once I am back at work. I am willing to make that decision and explain it to my DD as need be. I think if they see her every 6 weeks or so that will still enable her to maintain her relationship with them, and as she gets older we can use skype etc. I don't think that is so unreasonable, although I accept I should try and maintain the relationship and that if I reduce it now it will look like punishment so I will wait with things as they are for a few more months before deciding whether it needs to be reduced.

While it's not to everyone's taste, I can see the choice of t-shirt as well-intentioned sentimentality rather than a wish to upset OP.

FWIW my DS' dad said 'I think you should have an abortion' when I was expecting DS. That was 10 years ago and not only is DS alive and well but has a wonderful relationship with his now very loving and involved father.

To some men, sometimes, an unexpected pregnancy is a lot less 'real' than it is to a woman, and wanting a woman to abort isn't always an indication that the man is a brutal monster and a danger to the child once it's born. Though if the OP's XP assaulted her or embarked on a campaign of bullying and harassment to persuade her to abort then it's a bit different to him having said in the heat of a row that he wished she would miscarry

Cundtbake I agree the T-shirt thing is really strange. It's tacky enough in its own right but buying it, putting it on, taking photos and then taking it off all behind OP's back is very odd behaviour.

solidgoldbrass but the OPs ex also then deserted her, and said he hopes she miscarries. Not quite the same.

If you like OP i could send you the t-shirt i got for DS that says "dont mess with my mum" so you could send DD in that for her next visit with them not that i have ever done anything so blatantly PA. no, not me.

That's the thing though, his parents don't know any of this. And therefore can't really be faulted.

I suspect the T-shirt stunt was a case of a desperate granny trying to appeal to the better nature of her useless son.

The Op is right to be hacked off but worth bearing in mind that the grandparents don't know the full extent of their son's shitty behaviour.

Understandably you're feeling very hurt and betrayed OP - 'Daddy's little princess' indeed - but I suspect you now feel you did over react a bit, again understandably, in your immediate reaction to the photo.

I don't think you were unreasonable, but I do think that now you've had time to calm down your plan to talk to the GPs and tell them the whole background is the way forward.

You sound like a worried, caring mother OP, and you've been treated appallingly by the father of your child a man, moreover who you thought loved you. His behaviour towards you and your then unborn child no doubt colours how you view his parents.

Their behaviour with the t-shirt and photo was unkind and thoughtless and must make you question how much you can trust them.

In your position I wouldn't cut them out of your DD's life but I would be a little more cautious, at least for the immediate future, about how much trust I put in them.

I think they're probably desperate to be part of your child's life and equally desperate that their son accepts his daughter. As horrible as their son might have been to you, they weren't, they simply misjudged a situation and I'm afraid my sympathy lies with them. They're going to spend the rest of their lives thinking they have to tread on eggshells with you now (if you ever again let them see the granddaughter they clearly adore)

If they felt the t-shirt thing was ok then why put the child back in her original top before bringing her home from the park?