to give up trying to feed this child?

[ankar]

We had dd's best friend for a sleepover last night. The girls are both 8. My dd has done quite a few sleepovers before but her friend started only recently - a mixture of not wanting to initially and then wanting to but her mum being too anxious about it. Anyhow...she was finally allowed to come and it mostly went fine, the girls got along well and even did some sleeping.

However....this child would not eat anything! We really tried and had them make their own pizzas, decorate biscuits and offered lots of general snacks like fruit, yoghurt, crackers etc. She refused everything at first but then later on was obviously really hungry as she did eat a couple of pieces of apple, but that was all she would eat. I just kind of shrugged to begin with and thought she wasn't hungry, but then I realised that she was, but she wouldn't eat our food.

In the morning I made pancakes which she also refused. She looked at the plate and said "I don't like them". By then I was worried but also a bit fed up of offering different things for her to turn her nose up at, so I just said "Well that's a pity" and didn't offer anything else. When her mum just came to pick her up she asked how things went and I said fine but she didn't want to eat anything so I hope she's not coming down with something as she seemed to have no appetite. The mum looked at me quite cross but didn't say anything, then on the way to the car I heard the girl asking if they could pick up pizza on the way home as she was starving!

What could I have done and should I have offered her something else in the morning?

Let's try the opposite OP:

I invited my DDs best friend to a sleepover. I've just had a call from her DM asking to meet up to discuss food options, sleeping arrangements, and other issues. So I went along with it, and she's just brought me a bag of food and demonstrated how to cook cheese on toast without any brown bits. She then asked to check over the bedroom, moved a few things around and asked if it was OK if no one flushed the loo at night because her DD is a light sleeper. She left me with a few story CDs in case her DD didn't sleep....

It's just not realistic to anticipate every eventuality. I think that this thread is steering towards 'weird kids should stay home and not bother us with their weirdness'. Some kids socialisation is a longer and more painful process - but it is important to keep trying - even though it sometimes demands patience and understanding from the host. Presumably by the point of a sleepover there is some rapport between the guest and the hosts.

I was that fussy child. I now eat absolutely everything and would consider myself to be a bit of a foodie.

I used to feel anxious eating food in other people's houses as it would never be quite the same as at home. I would feel physically sick at the thought of eating food that wasn't quite right. Luckily though my friends parents didn't make a big deal out of it or stop me coming over.

I grew out of it over time, and I do believe fussiness is just a developmental trait in some children. It was nothing my parents did to me! I love food now but am always very understanding when children come to the house and are fussy about what to eat, and I always ask them what they would like, and don't worry if they don't eat what I have cooked.

It's doing nothing of the sort.

It's steering towards people having the decency to let people know.

There wouldn't be these issues then. Or at least it would be easier to diagnose the problem if there were then issues because the food was taken out the equation.

You are being silly aren't you? You shouldn't offer choices because someone might change their mind?! What?! Why would you assume that? Tbh it doesn't matter whether she would have eaten toast or not. What matters is that the OP, who I assume is an adult, behaved in a reasonable manner. Not offering any choice to a hungry 8 year old guest is not reasonable.

But let people know what? The OP should know the DC pretty well if she's her daughters best friend and has been invited to sleep over. It's likely that she got anxious and food refused - rather than some conspiracy of silence setting out to wind up the OP.

I'm saying that even if they accept choice they may then decide they don't like it and I'm asking how many times of doing that would you feel it's acceptable to then just not offer any more?

If your relying on a child to tell you what they want then what they know and what you know from how you do it are different things.

For example I would put the mince on top of the pasta for spag Bol. A child may well say they eat spag Bol but not want it together. At home that would be the norm so she may not think to say don't put mince on the pasta.

So a child may well ask for cheesy pasta meaning pasta with cold cheese grated over it. Someone may well take that to mean mac and cheese.

Both valid interpretations of something a child said they liked and asked for. But presented differently enough fir the child to not want to eat and because they don't have to explain at home they may not think to explain at the friends house.

Which is why the mum should say

I posted up thread how ridiculous it would be if everyone audited the proposed arrangements for sleepovers. There are a million potential stressors at someone's house. For example - I'm still weirded out that my friends mum expected me to bathe with her at a sleepover. Should my mum have said 'Kif doesn't really do gratuitous nudity - even among women'? And a million toilet related traumas - including getting very panicked to be stuck inside a toilet I couldn't open - and (the converse) not wanting to use a toilet without a lock.

A kid getting anxious about eating is routine IMO.

Oh I think hosting sleepovers and entertaining other children can be trying and one needs to vent a bit.

I am quite foodie and have a child who grew out of the fussy phase relatively young. (Also two stepchildren who again were quite cautious about unfamilar food.) I did my years of serving child-friendly food when everybody's mates came round.

But I do find that when the same pickiness extends to teenagers I think, 'Oh dear have you really not grown up a bit?' For example I invited my daughter's best friends whole family - they are neighbours - once for Sunday lunch. We did pasta and home-made pesto. And of course because the home-made pesto didn't taste like shop stuff all three visiting children (the older two would have been in their teens) didn't touch it - just scraped it off to one side and ate plain pasta. Nobody ate the salad either. I just thought okay, I don't think I'm inviting the wholefamily round again though if my daughter's particular friend wants to join us for a meal again that's fine.

I inwardly haven't quite forgiven the same friend of daughter for over-eating a Chinese takeaway one night she was sleeping over and vomiting profusely over an (unfortunately pale) carpet at 3 am. She offered no help in clearing up the mess, and made no apology either in the small hours or the next day. I went and told her parents afterwards that I quite understood about her puking, but thought it would have been nice if she'd acknowledged the incident before leaving the next morning. She went off without so much as a 'Thank you for having me.' The puke stains are still clearly visible all over the carpet years later, because the acidity discoloured it.

The solution is to provide a midnight snack bar! Tis the law of sleepovers.

This thread has just reminded me of a sleepover DD2 had for her 9th birthday. One of the mothers came over to "check out the house" beforehand , provided bedding for her DD's bed (I agreed to make up DD's bed for her DD, but said I couldn't guarantee that her DD would sleep there on her own, as the other five were all sleeping downstairs on mattresses). Nevertheless, she arrived early, and made up the bed herself. Predictably, her DD wanted to sleep with the others, so we compromised by putting her own bedding on one of the small mattresses. Her DM was none the wiser.

Giles it's really not that complicated. You ask them what they want from 3/4 choices. You cook them what they ask for, you ask them how they want it and do it like that. If they don't eat it give them the option of a few snacks later on. Same for breakfast. If they don't eat, then they don't eat, but you've done your best and behaved reasonably.

The issue here isn't that the child didn't eat, it's the op's unreasonable behaviour.

Giles it's really not that complicated. You ask them what they want from 3/4 choices. You cook them what they ask for, you ask them how they want it and do it like that. If they don't eat it give them the option of a few snacks later on. Same for breakfast. If they don't eat, then they don't eat, but you've done your best and behaved reasonably.

The issue here isn't that the child didn't eat, it's the op's unreasonable behaviour.

well, being controlling over food has clearly worked with your DC, they're obviously nicely in line and aren't going to rock the boat. Well done you. Either you have DC who will happily eat everything (which plenty will) or you've had many a battle over mealtimes. I don't have the first and I'm certainly not about to have the second. We have a gentle approach with new foods with the understanding that not everything has to be eaten - over time DD has gradually broadened what she eats and I'm guessing will carry on doing so, but yes, she probably is pretty limited compared to others. But in a strange house on her first sleepover I can imagine she may well regress a bit. Hopefully her first sleepover will be in the house of someone a bit more relaxed and understanding than you.

To sum up!

Child has been for dinner before but with the mum and others - no idea what she ate then as parents were chatting and kids helping themselves to food on the table on that occasion. I do remember that she was coming to the mum a lot and whispering in her ear. There was also a lot of demanding the mum put her shoes on, help her in the toilet etc. The mum said no each time then yes when the kid started whining. She's not just awkward about food.

I like this child but she was a bit rude in my house at times. Nothing worth mentioning to her mum, just "I don't like that" and "I want" and "Give me" which is is not very polite really.

I gave up with the breakfast partly out of feeling annoyed and defeated and partly because I thought her mum could just deal with her soon when she came to collect her.

I will not have her back for a sleepover. There are plenty of other easy kids we can have instead - in fact every other one we've had before is welcome back!

RiverTam it depends what you mean by battle over mealtimes I suppose but I've never sat and fought with my dcs about eating. I don't make any comment, just leave them to it but they know there's no alternatives if they don't eat.

People are commenting as if I've voiced my opinions to the child or her mum which I obviously have not! I did not make her feel unwelcome in my house - it was obvious that she and dd were playing happily and I never said anything to her about not eating.

Fussy eaters are a PITA - I know, because to my eternal shame I am one. But so are smug parents who are lucky enough to have good eaters and so put this entirely down to poor parenting.

I am 50. I was raised at a time when no concessions were made to fussy eaters. I survived childhood on bread and apples. Every day at school, I was forced to sit over plates of cold liver and cabbage while everyone else got on with afternoon classes. I was in hospital at the age of 7, where they just fed me puddings because I wouldn't eat meat.

My siblings are great eaters (and great cooks). It worked for them. I had anxieties around food by age 8 (which my mother would have not been able to identify or explain to other parents) and I was anorexic by 12. I have had eating disorders my entire life.

I now have a fussy eater of my own. Poor kid started life with food allergies and a mother with eating disorders, neither of which helped. I have tried and tried to get her to eat a wider range of foods, with no success. She even loves cooking - but she won't eat the finished product! I have decided not to make food a battleground - I feel I can't risk this, with my issues - and I'm sure that often comes across to other people as 'pandering' and 'spoiling' her. My own mother frequently blames me, saying, "I always expected you to eat whatever was put on the table". Well, that approach didn't work with me.

I know it is hugely annoying when people are fussy about food - you can't know how much I wish I wasn't. And I don't think you need to put yourself to ridiculous efforts to pander to fussiness - when my dd visits someone else I always tell them what she'll eat, then say, "But don't put yourself out for her. If she won't eat what you give her, a piece of cheese or an apple will be fine." I'd much rather my dd came home a bit hungry than came home with a frustrated parent badmouthing her and me.

Is offering 3 or 4 choices to a visiting child really the norm?

Do people honestly have that amount and variety of food readily available on the off chance that a child is going to be incredibly fussy?

What if the child doesn't want/like any of the choices offered? Are you supposed to do an emergency dash to the shops to get them their preferred option?

FWIW I found teenagers much fussier than under 10s. The poking at a dish with a knife, coupled with a dubious expression (clearly the food constituted extreme cruelty, or maybe attempt to poison) followed by "what is this?" muttered in disgusted tones was somewhat trying... Actually, this was from the child with no food restrictions - her sister who has multiple allergies was much easier to feed and actively enjoyed trying new dishes made from her restricted list of "safe" foods. Although there is no safety with anaphalaxis and what is safe one day is not necessarily safe the next.

Writing a kid off for sleepovers after 1 attempt is way harsh.

In all fairness though we don't know that this kid even was fussy.

Everyone's jumping to the sn or food issue conclusion or anxiety and no ones actually admire that this could just be a stroppy child who was determined to be awkward.

I know at 8 I'd have been capable of that and probably did similar things at home tbh.

I remember going all day not eating because unjust didn't want what my mother had made. She could have offered me chips and ice cream and I'd have refused just to prove a point.

There were things I didn't like but when served them at other people's houses or at grand parents I ate out of politeness and thanked them for it even if I want able to eat much of it.

But there were times I did cut my nose off to spire my age and I was capable of that at 8.

I'd agree that trying too hard to get children to eat food they dislike - or feel frightened of - is counter-productive. I can remember my own reluctance to eat all sorts of things.

But I think/hope it is easier to teach basic politeness towards people who have invited you into their home. 'Could I just have this? (But not that)' Would it be alright just to have a small helping?' 'Please.' 'Thank you.' Thank you for having me.'

Even if being in other people's houses is a bit strange for the child, remembering and using a few phrases like this should be manageable for most kids.

You've not made her unwelcome in your house - but you will be doing so from now on. You were defeated by an 8 year old. Not exactly win-win is it?

OP, you lost me now. I posted before to say I thought you were getting too hard a time... I've changed my mind after your last post. As eve says - your OP was clearly not sincere. You don't want to find a solution, you just want to feel superior.

You're seriously making way too big an issue of a child's behaviour and not having her back is really petty on your part.

The girl was a bit rude. She was. That's not the end of the world. You could call her up on the behaviour, you could talk to her mum about solutions, but you can't act as thought this is on a par with juvenile delinquency.

If you are going to keep every child who is occasionally less than perfectly mannered away from your Little Diddums, she's going to end up very lonely.

Giles, I agree - the girl may have just been being a brat, or she may not really have wanted to be there in the first place, or she may have been annoyed over something else, god knows what goes on between 8 year old girls sometimes. She certainly didn't act as I would expect even a 'fussy eater' to act. But OP's reaction is too much.

I think the real question could be distilled down as follows:

"An 8 year old friend of my DD's came to our house. There was a minor issue about her manners, which were slightly under par for an 8 year old. No one was hurt and no one's feelings were hurt*. I didn't speak to her or her mum about it, but I won't have her to our house again. AIBU?"

*unless the OP was seriously hurt by the refusal of her pancakes?

giles*:

It's steering towards people having the decency to let people know.

Perhaps the more logical thing to do would be to steer the OP towards having the decency to ask an 8-year-old guest what she would like?