Naked man in communal showers. Totally stark bollock naked.

[tardisgirl68]

Not an AIBU cos really the title says it all. At massive local pool with group of five girls aged 10/11. Luckily they were showering in different area, I was waiting at lockers for them to come back and get changed. Bloke in the shower, nonchalantly steps out of his trunks and made big show of rinsing them out. I did a double take, then the slow burn whilst my brain tried to process what i was seeing . I nabbed a passing lifeguard and said "look!!!!" He was (after getting dressed) frogmarched out and told if he came back in they'd get police involved. Creep. My group of girls saw nothing but that was more luck than anything. shudders

People get naked in front of strangers where it is in the rules to be. Many many people do not go places that are mixed sex and where strangers get naked.

When I used to go to CentreParcs there was 1 session a week that was mixed sex in the sauna where people could be naked. All the other sessions used to be really busy. That session that I used to go to, would often have only a handful of people there.

People should have the choice about whether they will see naked bodies of the opposite sex who are strangers. Just because you are fine with this, doesnt mean everyone is.

And exhibitionism is a real thing. Some men do get sexual pleasure in appearing naked in places where no one else is.

turgiday I address the Scottish law issue up thread. The applicable law is nearly identical.

I saw my dad naked lots as a child. I remember cuddling my mum in her bed in the morning, dad coming back from a shower naked and getting dressed.

I learnt that bodies are just bodies. I saw lots of men changing in the swimming pool and didn't give a damn. Apart from forming the view (which I still hold) that penises are ugly.

It was a bit of a shock to my 14 year old self!

Sometimes on here, I feel like I've stumbled into the twilight zone, an alternative universe where everything is just slightly skewed. This is one of those times. Thankyou Kewcumber and all the others, who have agreed that a naked man, poolside at a very busy public pool is not acceptable. Or woman for that matter. It really is that simple.

Genuine question: if it's acceptable to strip off in the showers in a public pool where anyone can see you, why isn't it acceptable to swim stark naked? Is it because there is more possibility of flesh to flesh contact in the pool?

How humiliating to be marched out like a sex offender when you have not contravened either the law or, it seems, leisure centre rules.

Quite. And anyone who's about to say 'It IS against the rules', well, at the time he was frogmarched off it was not clear what the rules were.

... a naked man, poolside at a very busy public pool is not acceptable. Or woman for that matter. It really is that simple.

It isn't that simple, tardis. As the mix of responses here indicates, it's a matter of opinion (not a twilight zone).

AllMimsy, IMO the difference is that, while swimming naked might feel nice, it's not particularly important and isn't the 'best' of the options (IYSWIM), whereas showering naked is better for cleaning yourself properly and, presumably, more hygienic as you remove your costume, which could be harbouring germs.

As tardis said, those rules would have been obvious to the vast majority of people in the UK. It may not have contravened the law but definitely contravened cultural norms.

tardis I was thinking the same reading this thread. On mumsnet huge numbers of people are outraged at something such as allowing a child to use a public toilet without supervision, and yet a naked man in a communal shower is apparently no big deal.

You just never can tell how a thread will turn out

I'm with you. My local pool has mixed changing rooms (with cubicles naturally) and communal showers. There are no single sex areas. I wouldn't want to see anyone showering naked, although it is made very clear in prominently displayed posters that everyone, man, woman or child, is expected to be wearing swimwear in the public areas, so there is no room for misunderstanding.

Banana, you can't just assert that. It's very presumptuous. treaclesoda's post (ironically, as she is arguing on the opposite side to me) kind of supports my point: in her pool's case it's 'made very clear' what the rules are, so 'there is no room for misunderstanding.'

treacle, if you're a man not a woman I apologise for assuming.

I don't get this 'only on Mumsnet' thing. Surely MN is just a slice of the opinions of a range of people in the UK and worldwide, rather than a culture or a group with any really meaningful identity?

I saw my father naked as a child. I wouldn't have been happy to be a 13 year old girl seeing a naked man I didn't know showering in poolside showers.

I agree Treacle, MN can be very peculiar. Lots of mothers on here say they would never ever send a son under 8 to a men's toilet alone. But a naked man showering in front of unsupervised children is just fine.

OnlyLovers - No MN is not a typical slice of UK mainly women. It has a far wealthier and more educated profile than the average population.

I am coming late to this (story of my life!), but whether or not YABU depends all on context IMO.

There are many countries in which this would be entirely normal and acceptable.
Clearly where you were not so much as evidenced by the man being frogmarched out etc.

Personally, I am not that fussed but I am a libertine forriner

I'm still yet to hear one decent argument as to why this is wrong, though.

The only arguments I've heard are

1. It is against cultural norms/isn't what everyone else does.

Really? We all have to obey "cultural normal" and do what everyone else does, or we get frogmarched out? What about stuff like gay marriage? That wasn't a "cultural norm" and most people are straight.

"You should just follow the crowd" is always a crap argument unless supported by another reason. For example "you should follow the crowd and not kill people" is acceptable because there are other good reasons why you shouldn't murder.

But "you should just do what we do" is a bad argument by itself.

2.) The leisure centre will have rules against it.
Fair enough. If there were signs up saying that "swimming costumes must be worn during showering" and then man contravened that rule, then he should leave. That is the situation treaclesoda describes.

BUT THERE WEREN'T.

If the rule existed but wasn't publicised, how can he be blamed for doing what most people do in showers? Be naked!

It is like having a rule that you cannot do front crawl in the swimming pool, someone trying it and being asked to leave.

They were using the pool for its proper purpose, but there is an arbitrary rule in place they weren't told about. How can they be blamed for that?

If there are any other arguments as to why this man having a shower naked is a bad thing, I would love to hear them.

Thankyou Kewcumber and all the others, who have agreed that a naked man, poolside at a very busy public pool is not acceptable. Or woman for that matter. It really is that simple.

It isn't that simple. Even if you don't agree with me and others, maybe try and see that there are other sides to an argument?

We have a 'changing village' with communal showers that can be seen (partially) not only from the pool but from the car park. There are no signs up regarding nudity because it's blindingly obvious that they are not nudey showers. There are nudey single sex showers in 2 other changing areas in the building (gym and 'sports') and 2 cubicles in the pool area. I do think it is a bit rubbish to not have nudey shower facilities after swimming but the solution is to campaign for better facilities, not ride roughshod over cultural norms. There's nothing I enjoy more than a naked communal shower but I accept that other people don't feel this way so I keep my cossie on in mixed sex open plan communal showers.

only I am indeed female!

When I say something like 'only on mumsnet' what I really mean is that you could start an identical thread on two different occasions and you could never predict the outcome.

I would be willing to bet that on a different occasion this same thread could have had 99% of replies saying that the naked man was undoubtedly a pervert and that the OP should have not just informed the staff but called the police. And then today, you get a much more 'meh, no big deal' response. I can never guess from an OP how a thread will turn out.

summer - We are brought up in this country not to be naked in front of strangers of the opposite sex. A public council owned swimming pool, exists to encourage people to be physically active and swim. If it ignores cultural norms, it will mean that lots of people simply wont use it.

Maybe you should try and set up a private swimming pool where people can be naked if they want? I suspect the number of peopel using it will be low as naturist swimming sessions are currently far and few between.

And actually swimming naked is way way better than swimmng with a costume.

you can't just assert that. It's very presumptuous.

But I can! That's the whole point of cultural norms, it is a description of what normally happens in that culture and in the UK people don't usually get naked in mixed-sex showers at pools.

If the council is of that view, the swimming pool have every right to ban naked showering. I am not saying we have an absolute right to shower naked at the pool.

They should put up a sign so everyone is aware.

I wasn't brought up "not to be naked in front of strangers of the opposite sex". I was brought up to respect my body and other people's.

Using a swimming costume in the pool is a rule that usually appears on those signs with the cartoon people you see on poolsides - alongside "no heavy petting".

Sorry, my message was in response to turgiday.

And actually swimming naked is way way better than swimmng with a costume

Actually its not. In terms of speed and glide through the water anyway. Anything that smooths out lumps and bumps and makes you smoother in the water than human skin is "better" in that sense. That's why competitive swimmers wear high tec body contouring suits.

Even when I lived in a country which had naked swimming sessions in the local public pool, people didn't wander round the changing rooms naked.

Some people seem so intent on proving how "right on" they are, I don't believe they actually swim very often.

i haven't seen a 'no heavy petting' sign for yonks. I think we are just supposed to know you shouldn't fuck in the water. All the pools around here are quite new. Maybe they only have them in the older pools.

pebblyshit - There's nothing I enjoy more than a naked communal shower. Really?

OnlyLovers - IMO the difference is that, while swimming naked might feel nice, it's not particularly important and isn't the 'best' of the options (IYSWIM), whereas showering naked is better for cleaning yourself properly and, presumably, more hygienic as you remove your costume, which could be harbouring germs. I don't see poolside showers as a place for thorough cleansing of either body or costume. Brief rinse off only to get rid of the chlorine, surely? And how can the costume can be harbouring any more germs than the naked body?

Chelsy - Swimming naked does feel better. Trust me, I am hardly at competitive levels of swimming.

But that is not what happens in pools in the UK. So of course general sessions people should have a costume on.

Even when I lived in a country which had naked swimming sessions in the local public pool, people didn't wander round the changing rooms naked.

We aren't talking about "wandering round the changing rooms naked" we are talking about having a shower naked

Some people seem so intent on proving how "right on" they are, I don't believe they actually swim very often.

How odd. Why does it matter how often people swim? Are people not allowed to have a view? I swim once a week, if that helps at all.