That it's not 'his' money!

[NameChangeAnon]

I've NC as I know a couple of MNetters in RL (though they already know my DH has his moments, especially with money related matters)

Just on the phone talking to DH and mentioned that I've found a reasonably priced masters degree, distance learning, in my interest area. It will be £4k over 2 years for part time. I'd like to start in 2015 as a goal.

I am currently a SAHM with 2DC, one YR and the other has another year before starting school. This was a choice we made, to have a SAHP until school age. We were both career changing so it could have been him, but he loved the first job he got and it's been going great for 3 years.

Every now and then he seems to have moments where 'he' is the earner and it is 'his' money. He said that he was not going to pay for my masters as it's not necessarily going towards me earning more in a job and is therefore hobby money while it's not necessarily going towards a job it might later I keep getting comments about returning to my old career (where I could get a reasonable salary from the first job) rather than being able to continue my own career change plans.

I was also, at this point, dealing with a potty training toddler, holding a wad of toilet paper in my other hand and getting DC2 to put on underwear. Is it my imagination but am I not also working and therefore entitled to a say in the family money? To be fair he wants to use the money I'm talking about to pay off the mortgage early and I agree with this goal, but I do not agree that he gets to dictate without discussion. He tried a sarcastic 'Do I get £2k a year to do my hobby?' and I said yes so he backtracked to his priority being the mortgage and how unreasonable I was to do anything else but focus on our security.

I really just need a bit of a vent. He's a good DH except he gets stupid wankerish twitchy about money and we're renovating the house at the moment and money is hemorrhaging out of our accounts although we are still perfectly on budget. Perhaps I mistimed the discussion as I knew I'd find prat-with-money-DH coming out this summer of spending.

Also I suppose AIBU to want to do a masters with no specific work related goal at this point? It's in the field I would like to work in, but I wouldn't get a career boost for having it IYSWIM.

Yes I'm a flitterrer. I've worked in Healthcare for 20+ years from in the mid-90s when I couldn't get a job as I was newly qualified in London and there were no jobs. So I worked to make ends meet in a restaurant and ended up working at head office. I took a pay cut to return to healthcare.

I only stopped when I had DC2, 2 preschoolers at home and DH was on his career change and away most of the year. For a crap flitterer I have a decent portfolio of investments and the possibility of earning 3 times the minimum wage in a part-time, school year friendly role. What would you have me do Curlyhaired Assasin?

My returning to work part time has been discussed (by DH and I) for Sept 2015 and full time work in around 2021 (though it could be a few years later). I'll be 50. I'll only have to flitter for 5-10 years as DH and I have decent pension provisions, but no doubt I'll manage something a little more than pin money. I always have.

This was more of an AIBU over the ownership of money in a SAHM/WwellawayfromHP relationship rather than asking if a MA in Creative Writing was worthwhile. It was his refusal to discuss, especially as I haven't exactly 'sprung' it on him. It's been on my agenda for at least the last 5 years.

Well I think that whether an MA is worthwhile or not IS a valid point when it comes to discussing the ownership of money. My understanding of MAs is that in the main they are designed for people ALREADY in that field who specifically need it to further their career. The people that I know who have done them have been in full-time work (or almost full-time), some of them have had it paid for by their employer, others have had to fund it themselves and have attended tutor groups etc in the evening after they've finished work.

I just haven't heard of anyone doing one for pleasure while not actually in at least a part time job.

Look, OP, if it's really your burning ambition to do an MA in creative Writing while you have the time to do it (with the full knowledge that it won't necessarily lead to any job openings) that's up to you, but you need to make your other half realise that you'll be funding it yourself, which will involve sitting him down with details as to what it will cost, what YOUR earnings currently are (ie enough to cover it) and showing him that what he is bringing in is enough to cover the mortgage, bills and renovations. So that he stops worrying about how everything is going to be paid for. because it sounds like he's feeling the pressure and doesn't feel that you are looking at it through the same eyes as he is.

Eh? Given that OP is doing the very great majority of the childcare as her xp is away for work, how on earth is family money not hers?

OP has already explained that 'her' earnings are counted as family money, as are her investments.

I really am at a loss with this thread, and all the belittling attitudes towards the OP.

Me too christina.

It's certainly an eye opener about how a certain percentage of people view sahm.

SAHM's and womens' aspirations in general.

I don't understand why an individual's desire to spend 38 quid a week of jointly earned money over 2 years doing something that will give her pleasure and satisfaction (not to mention having a focus for the evenings while her fo is away pursuing his career) is being so undermined.

if OP wanted to go to the gym a few evenings a week, would people be suggesting that she make some money out of being an athlete before she had the audacity to pursue her own interests?

I think this really depends on how much spare money the family has. I do know people who have done masters for pleasure and others who have done them straight from uni, followed by a PhD. However they didn't have children and were happy to continue living as students for a while longer.

I work ft my dh is a sahd, I would love to do a masters (I have wanted to do one for years) but my priority is to pay off our mortgage while rates are low. This relieves pressure. Once the mortgage has gone that is a huge pressure gone, in the event of another economic downturn or even if I was made redundant and had to take a far lower paid job we will be okay.

Have you worked out how many years you have left on your mortgage and what you have reduced it to by overpaying? If it's only a couple of years left for example could you do the MA the minute your mortgage is paid off?

43percentburnt We were down to the last 5 years or so of mortgage, but we've just remortgaged to do some major work on the house so it's more like a 10 year repayment now. DH probably still has the 5 year thing stuck in his head. Paying it off has been a focus for the last 3 years or so - mainly as a form of 'savings' for this work.

We have enough income between us for me to have an expensive pastime. I have a lot of time to pass too. He's not earning anywhere near the top salary available for the work he does, but there's always compensation for these types of jobs, but of course thousands of pounds will have to be an agreed family spend. It was his general unwillingness to discuss it, while stating it was 'his' money that made me grind my teeth wonder at his attitude.

CurlyhairedAssasin He's known about this ambition for me to continue study as far up as I can academically for a number of years. Money has always been his thing and he only looks at 'today'. Drives me nuts as I look at the medium picture, what investments we have, the income we have that's guaranteed, the income we have that's not and a risk assessment of the likelihood of losing that, savings policies we have and the minimum they will pay out etc. Today we are spending a lot on the house and that's all he can see. He had a hissy fit over a weekend course i went on appearing on a credit card statement. It was my Xmas gift from him, just taken in April, so I'm a bit peeved about that too. Thanks for my present love.

The more detail you're giving the more I'm taking your side. At first it sounded like he earned ALL the family income and you just wanted to extend your time as a non-income earner (leaving aside what Childcare you do), in order to pursue something that is more of a hobby., into the time when BOTH children will be at school all day.

But from what you've said it sounds like you are extremely savvy and sensible with money . (I take it you have no other debts you aren't telling us about, apart from your mortgage and aren't living beyond your means with a huge credit card debt?!). And now you've mentioned his hissy fit over your birthday present appearing on the credit card bill, I'm starting to think he sounds like a nightmare to live with over money.

Does he hate working away from home and feel tied into it because of the high income it brings, maybe? Maybe that could be behind his behaviour?

If you want him to see things from your point of view, wait for a wet weekend when the children are bored and leave him with the children while you go off (or get him to imagine back to the weekend course in April - I assume he looked after the DC?). Now explain that 6 months out of the year is like that for you (will be 9mo if he takes the course in the north). If he was in your position, I expect he might think £2000/yr for 2 years would be a small price to pay to do something challenging, fun and mind-stretching to occupy his time. From your previous posts it sounds like he does value studying and would be supportive so I expect he'll come round OK.

Thanks CurlyhairedAssasin and also other people whose replies are against my point of view, they are getting me to take the emotion out of it and really consider if it is a whim or something more.

His parents were always obsessed by money - they did an awful lot with a small budget to be fair. My parents were cautious with money, but the difference is I didn't grow up knowing we were on a tight budget. I think he even got digs about eating too much as a teen and costing a fortune and he's a really tall barrel-chested man, of course he ate a ton as a teen. Education also was not a priority for his family, while my parents left school without qualifications and wanted us to do everything we can. This was obvious when they dismissed his degree plans as outside his capabilities and worthless. My parents and friends were his cheerleaders

He's usually OK with money because we rarely overspend, and have no debt apart from the mortgage. But from time to time when we have to be careful and budget for a while he tends to get snippy. He makes bad choices and a few years back we nearly split up over another issue, but that had money at its heart. I usually have an 'ohhhh' moment and talk about the money issue, which he'll initially deny is the cause of the other problems, but then will see it is.

I knew money would raise its head this summer, because of the change in mortgage amount and the spending that needs to be done. But if I want to start in 2015 I need to save up a bit, and we don't do hidden savings. I need to save because I can't put £2k on the credit card in a year's time without having a lot of it saved up, or it'll be moneyageddon all over again. That's why with over a year before I want to start I need an agreement in principle.

I don't understand why your savings would need to be hidden
I have a standing order into my savings account as does DH.

You should have money which is yours and yours to make decisions with - I really wouldn't stand for the "its my money" attitude that your DH is coming out with - I would be having words regarding "His children and their childcare " which would cost a hell of a lot if you weren't doing it!

There seems to be a bit of a divide in expectations - you don't want to go back to your old career /he expects you too.

Time to have a discussion about this and also sort out your personal savings - it should be 50/50 agreed amount for each of you to do as you wish.

Just to add that DH loves his new career, and loves that it took off so successfully. He's always worked away a lot ever since I met him, but often for longer periods which he hated. The regular weeks off and on work for him, he thinks it's great that when he's at work he had nothing else to focus on, and when at home he barely has to think about work. He rarely has anything negative to say about the job or the people and he's always happy to go back on returning day.

There's also a really good chef cooking for them.

Well after your last post I'm feeling a lot more sympathy for you. He has exactly the life he wants and you don't. This isn't right. Why exactly does he not want you to spend this money. It should be all down to money. If you can afford it without struggling then you should be able to do it especially as you did earn some money last year.

It doesn't seem that it will cause financial problems to do the course. Have you worked out how many months/years it will set you back paying off the mortgage if you spend money on the course?
Have you also worked out the cost of moving home, stamp duty etc and buying a house with all the refurb done vs how much it has cost you to extend your mortgage and refurb your own house? It may make him feel happier in the here and now to think spending money on the house has actually saved you money. Iykwim!

[Grin] @ 43percentburnt. We did the calculation some time ago on the cost of moving. It worked out as nearly 20k which is a good amount of this summer's work.

We also worked out years ago that intensive courses are a value for money pastime as there's no time for spending money elsewhere. We used to do quite a bit of study at playzones which the DC will be at anyway from time time. A good use of a rainy day.

I see what you mean about it being good to look at this from an unemotional point of view, but I'm afraid I'm still stuck on the principle of the thing. For me, one of the things that matters most to me about my DP (and DC when/if we have them) is that he is happy and fulfilled in what he does from day to day, be that with regards to his job, hobbies, or living space. I know he feels the same regarding me. Maybe it's easier for us because we're younger and most careers these days are so hard to get into (and periods of unemployment / unpaid internships are common among our peers), but as a unit I think we're very willing to endure 'lean' years in the cause of one or both of us pursuing things that fulfil us. In your case it doesn't even seem you as a family would have to go without, just reframe some ideals you (or more particularly your husband) had r.e. paying off the mortgage in the next 5 years, which you say was in question anyway. Money really isn't everything, and personal satisfaction ranks above it in my view, if you can pursue it without crippling yourselves.

R.e. being one of life's flitterers - I remember a high school teacher of mine once reflecting that the days when people stuck with a single career throughout life were starting to fade, and I think he was right. There's nothing wrong with trying new things, however 'adult' you are!

Regarding the 'value' of an MA, I think doing part time learning on top of either childcare of another job is seen really positively. My DM did a 'general arts' BA at the same time as I was at university, and it was commented upon very positively in a job interview in an utterly unrelated field. It shows a desire for self-improvement and demonstrates that you can motivate yourself to work without someone standing over your shoulder. Just don't do a PhD because then you're 'overqualified' for everything.

I'm with your DH on this - you both had the opportunity to do a degree previously which would contribute to your career change but now you want to do an extra course which would mean the financial burden is on your DHs shoulders for longer than he expected.

In your position if I really wanted to do something like an MA in creative writing I would be doing it part time or through distance learning and getting a part time job too in a shop or something.

I dont see this as a gender issue at all. I have always been the WOHP while DH was SAHP. We are a few years further down the line than you, NameChangeAnon but not so very different.

I wonder if you really understand the pressure of being the sole breadwinner? It is nice if you have a job you love but all jobs contain or have periods of utter crapness. At the end of the day this is why it is paid. If it was that great we would all do it for nothing and then it would be a hobby.

Being sole breadwinner means that everything lands on your shoulders. You cant give up your job just because you dont like it. You have to keep thinking further down the line. You do extra courses as they come up because you dont know when you might need to have that extra thing under your belt. You never know what is going to come up next. You may think you are safe then there is a company re-organisation and suddenly you are surplus to requirements.

If you lose your job you have to get another one straightaway. This gets harder as you get into your 40s and your career development has meant that you have become more specialised.

I can see why your DH wants to get the mortgage paid off. It gives you more security. It takes just a little bit of the pressure off.

Do people really believe that a distance learning course on creative writing will add on your cv??
What most employers look for is ability to stick to one job, ability to follow the rules, team working.
Someone who avoids work, who does hobbies and courses and who likes to make her own rules to suit her moods doesnt look very good to employers. You will add more to your cv if you do few shifts at a supermarket and get a reference that at least you can be on time for a work.

Your plan about teaching in FE. I looked into that last year for myself. The pay is 20-25per hour. But...you will pay your own tax and ni out of that.
No paid holiday.
No sick pay.
Commute cost for only 2 hours work.
No work all year.
Dont look at it per hour. Calculate it per year. How much you will bring home per year after tax, commute cost, unpaid hols? Divide it by 52 or by 12. It is very little i am afraid. It doesnt cover bills, never mind hobbies.

The other advantage of staying in one job rather than "flitting" is that you become very experienced in it, and employers these days tend to value years of experience at something rather than someone with little experience in the field but who has a qualification in it (which the experienced candidates probably also have, even if they've done it very part-time over a long period whilst working in the job.)

You get your face known too, not just within the organisation you work for but through networking as part of the job.

I really would think carefully about switching careers in this day and age unless it's a shortage field. When jobs come up, you as a newbie will be competing against people with YEARS of experience.

To the last few posters, there seems to be a suggestion that I would be getting a job soon and earning. I won't be for a few more years. I am, as agreed with DH, a SAHP.

The extremely part-time teaching is all I want for the next couple of years. The MA is interest only but would show that I have done more than have a career break while the DC are pre-schoolers. My career change plans are approved of by several business savvy friends who believe I have a talent in my area.

This aibu is not a critique of my plans, but rather the right of the wage earner calling the money theirs. The fact I want to spend a fair bit of money on something considered trivial by some is interesting in that it has been polarizing.

I'm the breadwinner in our household and, no, the money isn't mine. My wife works but I earn over 10 times more than she does. I would never hold her back from something like this.

She has family in OZ and has spent more than £4k in the last 6 months to see them (on more than one occasion). I stayed here as I'm self employed and didn't want to stop earning but she went without question.

Some things aren't measurable by financial gain, like seeing family or developing oneself. If you were hard up then £4k would be a tough decision but by the sound of it, it's a no brainier.

Just to add, we both earned the same when we had kids and my wife wend down to 12 hours a week (evenings so she could be a sham).

We were skint but I spent our spare cash on additional training so I could improve my earning potential. There was never any guarantee but fortunately it paid off. My wife, like you, is thinking of doing a course for interest (child psychology) and is likely to cost similar amounts. I think it'd be out of order if I now turned round and said 'no' given the support I've received.

Your situation doesn't sound too dissimilar OP.