That it's not 'his' money!

[NameChangeAnon]

I've NC as I know a couple of MNetters in RL (though they already know my DH has his moments, especially with money related matters)

Just on the phone talking to DH and mentioned that I've found a reasonably priced masters degree, distance learning, in my interest area. It will be £4k over 2 years for part time. I'd like to start in 2015 as a goal.

I am currently a SAHM with 2DC, one YR and the other has another year before starting school. This was a choice we made, to have a SAHP until school age. We were both career changing so it could have been him, but he loved the first job he got and it's been going great for 3 years.

Every now and then he seems to have moments where 'he' is the earner and it is 'his' money. He said that he was not going to pay for my masters as it's not necessarily going towards me earning more in a job and is therefore hobby money while it's not necessarily going towards a job it might later I keep getting comments about returning to my old career (where I could get a reasonable salary from the first job) rather than being able to continue my own career change plans.

I was also, at this point, dealing with a potty training toddler, holding a wad of toilet paper in my other hand and getting DC2 to put on underwear. Is it my imagination but am I not also working and therefore entitled to a say in the family money? To be fair he wants to use the money I'm talking about to pay off the mortgage early and I agree with this goal, but I do not agree that he gets to dictate without discussion. He tried a sarcastic 'Do I get £2k a year to do my hobby?' and I said yes so he backtracked to his priority being the mortgage and how unreasonable I was to do anything else but focus on our security.

I really just need a bit of a vent. He's a good DH except he gets stupid wankerish twitchy about money and we're renovating the house at the moment and money is hemorrhaging out of our accounts although we are still perfectly on budget. Perhaps I mistimed the discussion as I knew I'd find prat-with-money-DH coming out this summer of spending.

Also I suppose AIBU to want to do a masters with no specific work related goal at this point? It's in the field I would like to work in, but I wouldn't get a career boost for having it IYSWIM.

Porto maybe hes just thinking practically, something men seem to do automatically on a regular basis?

I have to say I am similar, I would rather pay off the mortgage or similar and then fulfil something my DP enjoys, I consider the first thing a priority?

Well indeed 22, but is family money and he doesn't get to decide just like that,

And my experience of men recently going on my fb feed is that they don't think "practically" they think selfishly.

If you do the MA, what do you think he'll be like about it? Gracious, or jumping down your throat if you don't absolutely LOVE every single section of the course and be very vocal in how grateful you are every 5 seconds? When you finish it, do you think he'll say "Well done you, glad you did something fun and improving" or "Right, when are you getting stuff published and how much are you getting paid? I want a return on MY 4000 investment now. Oh look, interest rates have gone up and we haven't paid as much off the mortgage as we could have BECAUSE OF YOU"

He's being especially unreasonable if you've held down a job for 20 years prior to the kids. A master's is likely to enhance any return to work and show employers that you were committed even whilst taking time off. I think he's being very short-sighted.

The trouble with some of the comments on this thread is that some people are working in jobs they obviously hate and consequently hate SAHM.

I only worked part-time while my daughter was growing up but felt that the real work started when I got home, because I loved my job and hate housework.

Good luck in working out the priorities for how to spend the family money. A Masters degree sounds like a good idea to me and as someone else mentioned earlier on, a good way to help compensate the effects of the long career gap.

I'm sorry but I was with you all the way until you said creative writing, and that I think you implied you haven't published anything yet. Just write. Have you seen the Absolute Write forums? They're great. www.absolutewrite.com/forums/ You can post excerpts from your work there and get feedback. Do you write every day?

A masters does sound like fun but it's not necessary. However if you really want to do it then you should be entitled to spend as much on your hobbies as he spends on his. For example I earn a lot more than my DH but we have a budget that sets aside a certain amount if fun money and it's the same for each of us. We have also agreed an amount to overpay the mortgage so we pay it off early at a pace we're both comfortable with. You need a budget, because at the moment it sounds like he spends what he likes while you have to beg him for money and that is so. not. fair!

Entirely agree he shouldn't be laying down the law to you like this.

I am a bit cynical about creative writing MAs, whose main function seems to be to subsidise authors who can no longer make a living from publishing their work so have to teach instead.

There are so many ways of improving one's writing without doing a full MA. What about a local writers' group, an internet group, a weekend retreat, etc?

Another one who was split on the issue until you said creative writing. Writers write - so start writing and get some stuff published before handing £4k over.

I work in this sort of area and am also very sceptical of creative writing MAs. As your DH has said, while it might be fun to do the course, it's very unlikely it will help you work-wise.

And if you're doing it for fun, you don't need an MA course, as there are hundreds of much cheaper and IMO just as useful creative writing courses out there.

YABU.

Sorry can't believe that a MA in CW will lead you any further down the career path than doing something practical, somehow it feels rather self indulgent especially if financially things are tight. There are plenty of workshops, literary festivals and short courses available where you can get tips and feedback from published authors.

You may want to ask at your interview whether you'd be involved in accredited courses or just leisure adult ed. Funding for the latter is being cut back to the bone but if you are qualified enough in Holistic Ttherapy to teach a Level 1 or 2 course and/or could offer Literacy (as an extension of your Creative Writing skills) you may find yourself getting more opportunities for regular work. However there is a lot of admin and preparation for accredited courses too much of which would be in your own time. Do you already have PTLLS or a PGCE/Cert Ed ?

Try earning £4,000 yourself and see how hard it is. Selling on ebay working from home and so on.

I realise it isn't only the finances themselves in question , but the whole set up and idea of "fairness". However it wouldn't just be the 4k cost of the course itself. That would also be at the expense of you being available to potentially earn income plus sundry costs such as wrap around childcare, travel and so on. To earn 4k teaching in FE as a sessional tutor, before tax and NI, you would need to work around 60 hours per term/one full day a week for a year.

Some people do make lots, some people make ends meet and a lot of people fail to get anything published.

No- a tiny tiny minority make lots, a few make ends meet, most published writers take another job to make ends meet, and nearly all aspiring writers fail to get anything published (95% rejection rate). Most fiction writers dont earn the minimum wage.

Although I do see the point of education for education's sake, presenting becoming a writer as a serious career change is like saying you're going to be a rock star. The odds are massively against you and no-one will believe it until it happens. There are also cheaper ways to learn the craft of writing IMO.

I think people are getting confused about the goal of the MA in creative writing. The goal is to have an MA, not to become a published author or write for a living. The course I want to do is p/t and distance learning, and from my other degree CW studies I know that an awful lot can be done in evenings and in between other things. In a way it's best NOT to sit down for 4 hours to write. This would be a hobby, if you like, to fill in the half a year I'm on my own and instead of watching TV or knitting. Of course I believe in the worth of education and I don't think having studied p/t while taking a career break will do my CV any harm if I look at more teaching opportunities in another 5 years or so while I'm still the part time, need to pick the kids up and have them for holidays parent.

I want to teach using my other qualifications. And I do have a PTLLS qualification and am looking at the next level on the C&G teaching program. This is my potential next career that by the 'plan' I should be looking at next school year, starting 2015. Full time will be another 5-8 years down the line.

I think there are two separate issues.

One is how much each of you can afford to spend on things that matter to you personally, whether thats an MA or a hobby.

The second is whether that MA is good value for money. I would encourage you to be a bit more cynical about it. Having an MA isn't really in itself going to make much difference to your career. There is a lot of hype of PGT degrees and many of them are money spinners for the University but not a good investment for the learner.

If you are just doing it for fun, then I would be thinking through whether an MA is the best way of having that fun, and if it is, whether now is the best time to sink 4k into fun. If you are happy on both counts, your DH needs to see a statement of how much money has gone on his fun these last few years, and see how it's your turn now.

But please don't do it just to show him who's boss. And be very cynical before you do it as part of your retraining plan. I would be talking to ppl who do what you want to, and finding out what made the difference in getting that work. I bet it wasn't an MA.

That's really interesting about the MA. I don't know about teaching and what will get you the leverage, so it is interesting to see.

I do recommend the writing challenges though - free and easy. One I'm involved in does two challenges a week - 500 words on a Monday and 100 words on a Friday. It's good practice and doesn't take long. I still have to fall back on knitting.

22honey
Porto maybe hes just thinking practically, something men seem to do automatically on a regular basis?

Stereotyping much! I think the nub of the issue is that all of these decisions should be taken jointly neither party gets to dictate to the other.

All this stuff about the poor hard working breadwinner carrying all the stresses of the family - is this the same person who refused the option of being a stay at home parent and grabbed a new job with both hands when it was offered.

At times it can be a challenge being the main or in my case currently the sole earner (DH was a SAHD and is now renovating our house) but it is also a choice we both made. I am keen to pay down the mortgage early but not to the point where it begins to have a noticeable impact on the quality of family life. I would expect each of us to have a reasonable amount of money to spend on inessential spending.

Just wanted to point out that women are capable of practical thinking and financially supporting the entire family without thinking that that means they get to make all the financial decisions without consultation with their partner.

Okay, 4K over 2 years works out at about £38 per week.

Given that OP has and will continue to have lots of evenings, weekends etc when her dp is away and she would need to pay a baby sitter if she wants to go out, £38 per week sounds pretty good value to pursue a personal interest that is engaging and satisfying.

A 3 night a week gym habit with attendant childcare costs would be considerably more, but it's hard to imagine that OP would be called 'entitled' or 'spoilt' if she wanted to do this during the many months that her dp is away.

Not all MAs are worth the paper they are written on.

I can totally see your dhs point. How many courses are you going to do for fun? If my dh was dilly dallying over holistic therapies and fiction, and would spend 4k and two years on indulging himself in this rather than find a job, I would be really disappointed.

"The goal is to have an MA" - could you elaborate, OP? Why do you want to have an MA?

I reckon most people I work with don't even know about my postgrad degree, and my friends/family don't care - it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to my day to day life.

If you want to write, write. I don't get your wanting to have a qualification for the sake of it, when you say it's not about furthering your career prospects.

From my experiences in my line of work, an MA is a kind of halfway house in many respects. In lots of cases, it's only useful as a stepping stone to a PhD and is a bit pointless in itself (I recognise that this is not the case in all areas of study!).

noddingoff If I take the course he would be supportive, he generally has been over my study aims. He also comments on how our non-stop studying (he's still going) is having a positive effect on the DC's attitudes to school. Learning is something we all do.

He's got a lot of industry-specific courses to take. Work pay and give him expenses, and even pay him overtime for the weeks he's on the courses, but these weeks come out of 'our' 26 weeks with him home. I think he's talking of a 3 month course where he'll be in the North of the country and we'll be in the South and he can only come home for weekends. He won't be down for them all as he'll need to study. Some of the courses are compulsory but others, like this one, are personal goals too. It's for a qualification that's not currently needed but might be 10 years down the line and he wants to take it. Want to being enough for me to support him.

QuintessentiallyQS the dilly dallying over holistic therapies is historic and from pre-DC when we had enough money from 2 careers to do more hobby stuff. One of them even counted towards my compulsory professional development in a hospital setting so not a total waste of time. I think DH went scuba diving in Belize while I took it. And it's this that could be used to earn a reasonable part-time, school year friendly salary.

But writing is a hobby. And paying 4 k to "learn" how to do your hobby better, over a 2 year period, is a bit indulgent.

Just because he has hobbies and tools in his garage, he is not leaving work to indulge in his hobbies?

So, you have education in health care, that you no longer want to work with. Various holistic courses you did as a hobby before children. Now a degree with a high element of creative writing. Next an MA in creative writing. Do you plan to ever start planning properly, or will you just go where the wind takes you? Are all these courses leading somewhere, other than just teaching other people creative writing purely on the basis of having taken a course?