That it's not 'his' money!

[NameChangeAnon]

I've NC as I know a couple of MNetters in RL (though they already know my DH has his moments, especially with money related matters)

Just on the phone talking to DH and mentioned that I've found a reasonably priced masters degree, distance learning, in my interest area. It will be £4k over 2 years for part time. I'd like to start in 2015 as a goal.

I am currently a SAHM with 2DC, one YR and the other has another year before starting school. This was a choice we made, to have a SAHP until school age. We were both career changing so it could have been him, but he loved the first job he got and it's been going great for 3 years.

Every now and then he seems to have moments where 'he' is the earner and it is 'his' money. He said that he was not going to pay for my masters as it's not necessarily going towards me earning more in a job and is therefore hobby money while it's not necessarily going towards a job it might later I keep getting comments about returning to my old career (where I could get a reasonable salary from the first job) rather than being able to continue my own career change plans.

I was also, at this point, dealing with a potty training toddler, holding a wad of toilet paper in my other hand and getting DC2 to put on underwear. Is it my imagination but am I not also working and therefore entitled to a say in the family money? To be fair he wants to use the money I'm talking about to pay off the mortgage early and I agree with this goal, but I do not agree that he gets to dictate without discussion. He tried a sarcastic 'Do I get £2k a year to do my hobby?' and I said yes so he backtracked to his priority being the mortgage and how unreasonable I was to do anything else but focus on our security.

I really just need a bit of a vent. He's a good DH except he gets stupid wankerish twitchy about money and we're renovating the house at the moment and money is hemorrhaging out of our accounts although we are still perfectly on budget. Perhaps I mistimed the discussion as I knew I'd find prat-with-money-DH coming out this summer of spending.

Also I suppose AIBU to want to do a masters with no specific work related goal at this point? It's in the field I would like to work in, but I wouldn't get a career boost for having it IYSWIM.

I think it's sad that the worth of studying is being measured purely in terms of how it will improve your career. I've done two MAs and an additional BA while I've been a sahm and for us, it's the cost of an activity that brings me fulfilment and pleasure, just like any hobby/social activity. That's what makes it worthwhile for us, and I'm very lucky that DH supports me in this but I wouldn't expect anything less tbh, as I offer so much support to the household. My courses aren't tied to any career aims and as for VFM, £4k over two years is very cheap for an MA!

Yes, there are many ways of doing the same activities without paying MA fees, but that could apply to my courses too (most arts/humanities courses really) - I could just read books and watch internet lectures. But doing it as an MA brings structure and links to professionals in the field, as well as a recognition of what you've learned at the end.

Some of this thread is so sexist

You'd think being a SAHM reduces a woman to not amounting to much really, as she's 'just at home with the DCs'. Never mind that she had a career before/is on a career break - its all about facilitating the man, he being the important breadwinner; whatever she has contributed previously and currently doesn't really count. He gets to dictate to her regarding her "frivolousness" and how family money is spent...its all HIS money isn't it?

Studying for an MA does not take years and years, and it will look very good on OPs CV to have done an MA during a career break.

Nothing wrong with some aspects of life being about pursuing something you enjoy. As long as it can be afforded, that is. In this case, studying for an MA isnt even a forever activity.

I think being able to do this makes some people jealous..in fact there does seem to be a lot of jealousy around SAHMs. I guess its because some people wish they didnt have to work outside the home and SAHM sounds a cushy number. Thats not SAHMs faults tho. They aren't 'less' than a woman who works outside the home, that isnt the only way to define oneself as a woman. I do think there needs to be a discussion around OP pursuing an MA, but certainly not from the standpoint that the man has more say because he works outside the home, and from the standpoint that its all his money. It is not.

Where the wind takes me I'm afraid. It's not for everyone but I have always landed on my feet and done well wherever I've ended up.

I'm over 40. When I decide what I want to be when I grow up I shall:

a) be sure to tell you first

and

b) stop being the person I am.

The MA would not be taking me to any specific goal. My GCSEs and A Levels didn't and even my healthcare qualification was something I wandered into, to do for a while, at the outset. I also have bookkeeping and other qualifications from another work incarnation. I've always had a decent remuneration for work done so it has never mattered that I don't have a solid pathway through life, but rather a winding path. The MA isn't for anything, but as with everything else I'm sure it will eventually lead somewhere interesting. My interest-only holistic stuff is already beginning to pay me back for the money and time spent on it.

I think the issue here is not that the OP want to study (and whether or not her study is useful or relevant or frivolous). But that she wants to spend a fair chunk of family money and that is in finite supply.

I suspect DH's argument over whether the MA is useful is to do with value - if the MA will bring tangible benefit that perhaps means it should be prioritised over other things. If the OP just wants to do it as a hobby (which tbh is what it sounds like), then there is a different argument.

It sounds like DH values a "useful" qualification over house mortgage/renovation but values house renovation/mortgage over spending on a hobby. I suspect I would think the same in his position.

It's not quite the same but it often gets asked on her what you would do if you won 10000. Some people would pay it off the mortgage, some people would blow it all on a holiday. Neither is wrong, just to do with different priorities. The problem is that here OP and DH have different ideas. What do they do if they don't agree? Hopefully there is some compromise to be made.

hi namechangeanon

have you got your own money? - I pay for my interests out of mine. I probably won't get to concert performer level with my music, or Olympic level sports. But these things makes me really happy. DH and I get the same amount of pocket money every month. Anything not strictly family expenditure has to be budgeted for out of our 'own' money. I don't know if that could be a solution?

Hi Freedom

Well I do have an income from investments and my holistic stuff pays a bit (ad hoc to friends at the moment). I think I 'made' about £3.5k on my tax return for 2012/13. But that's also our money not mine, in the way we work.

yes, namechangeanon my investment revenue and teaching revenue is also joint money, which stuck in my throat a bit so I proposed the "own money" allowance as I didn't want to have to square absolute everything with my DH before I spent it. I guess if your money rules are fixed with everything going into the same pot it is not really a solution. good luck with it. I am sure you'll work something out. Was smart to have a rant on here first like you did so you can address it calmly with him in RL.

Why can the OP only go back to work 9.30 to 2.30? Can't she find a school that has before and after school clubs? Or find a childminder?
When I had young DCs I came across so many women who seemed to think that having children entitled them to 1) stay at home for several years, going to coffee mornings with other SAHMs, to the beach, etc etc, then finally 2) "career change" from a decent earning job to something like massage, or messing around with incense bottles. If DH hadn't been around they would have returned to the well paid jobs they'd come from.

Is you face like this swannery from the green eyed monster clearly inhabiting in you?

Swannery
Why should her DH have a job that he wants to do that takes him away from the family for months at a time leaving the OP to cover all the family commitments?

There are two parents in the family and one of them has got a job that limits the options of the other.

Actually I am relieved that the MA is basically for fun. That means that you won't be taken for a ride over it. As long as it's well run and you do enjoy it, you will get a good return on the time and money you put in.

i'd be more worried if you believed that it would be definitely useful for your career. Just because it might be, it might not be, there's a lot of variety out there.

So it's back to: is it fair enough to spend 4k on something for pleasure? and that's a family decision. Sure, it's not up to him to say, nope, that's my money, hands off. But you should both be comfortable with spending that now, on this, just as you would be if it was the other way round and he wanted 4k speakers or something.

Swannery it is a cruel world, where some people are allowed to enjoy their lives, isn't it?

I can think of tons of uses for an MA in creative writing actually. When a person studies something they are passionate about, they are liable to rise to the top of the heap, rather than all those worthy people who study something that they find of no interest at all because they think that it will help make money

I can think of tons of uses for an MA in creative writing actually

If its a good course. I do worry about the industry in selling not-very-good courses to ppl. There are some very disappointed ppl out there who believed than a MA was bound to be good, whoever delivers it.

This is why you both need your own fun money out of the household budget. It all goes into one pot, and in our house, DH and I are lucky enough to each get £200 a month to spend as we please. If you and your DH each got that that then this argument would be solved immediately.

I still personally fail to understand the appeal of a CW masters, particularly if you have never been published and that isn't your goal, but it doesn't matter the logic behind it if you choose to spend your discretionary money on that for whatever reason. It doesn't excuse you, though, from the responsibility for you to contribute financially to the household once you children are old enough for you to work, as planned.

I'm trying to see things from the perspective of the OH, is all. If the OP wants to have fun doing an expensive creative writing course that will not lead to any improvement in her employment prospects (and may possibly have the opposite effect as employers may see it as frivolous and time wasting), and if her DH is happy to go along with that, then good on her. But saying that she can't get a decent earning job when the children are at school because she will only be able to work 9.30 to 2.30, as she has said above, is disingenuous. Many many parents manage to look after children of that age while working full time. Most schools these days have wraparound childcare. Single mums manage it, so why not a married mum whose husband works away a lot?
I do think that dads get a raw deal, with the assumption being that they will continue working all hours to bring in as much money as possible, while the mum spends time with the kids and gets to change her job to something that she's basically just doing for fun. It's not fair, and if the OP's DH is pissed off about it, I don't blame him.

Swannery, somewhere in this thread it was said that op wanted to be around her kids because they are young and dp is not around that much due to work (he likes and did a degree for while op supported him).

OP, I think yanbu, because you are right that we should pursue paths we feel we are good at, and not always do they have a clear future. But they might lead to more.
What's wrong with spending 4k on your hobby over 2 years if dh has the same amount of money worth in hobby stuff already stashed in the garage?

But OP's dh has changed career and enjoys his job.

It certainly doesn't sound like he's living a working life of misery whilst OP fritters away family finances in-between caring for 2 small children, managing house renovation and working.

I honestly don't get the animosity towards OP on Thos thread.

In my case my DH said that everything he does is for me and DD. I accepted that assertion until I'd had enough and wanted to start working towards investing as much in my career as he has in his over the past 13 years and that'll mean less hours, not working away and being more accountable and less flexible for work as he'll be needed here.

Seeing this was going to be a problem I called him out on it and asked if he would honestly have worked less if we weren't in his life? Of course he couldn't say that! In fact, because he had no responsibilities other than bread winner his career has benefitted as he could do as he pleased.

No more of that now so I'm weaning him off of this expectation.

It's hit him that his hours are going to longer despite working less hours and that he won't be as valuable to the company because he can't be a flexible and devoted to them.

The Op and her dh have agreed that she will only work 9:30. - 2:30 while the kids are in primary school.

I think they are both happy with that decision.

So even if lots of people on here happily use wrap around care (and from September I will be one of those people) it does not mean that we should be telling the Op she should. Because both adults in her family have decided that that is not what they want.

The relevant questions are:-

1. Is. Masters that may or may not lead to improved earning potential "work" or "hobby"?
2. If the answer to (1) is "hobby" then how much is an appropriate amount to spend on a hobby?

There is a lot of talk on this thread about men being part of the downtrodden masses and being taken advantage of by their spoilt sahw. It's something I see on here quite often.

I mentioned this thread to my husband last night and he had a few comments (and no he doesn't just say things to keep the peace):

He is happiest when he is working and the harder the better.

If I wanted to study anything we would look at ways to make it happen together.

Sometimes education, just for the sake of it, is worthwhile.

He was very happy that I was a sahm and no I wasn't sponging off of him.

His last comment was " where do you get all these weird ideas from? It must be MN". He's right.

I've just re read my last post and that weird comment sounds ruder than I meant it to.

What I mean is sometimes you read opinions on here about sahm and financial arrangements etc and you start to doubt yourself and how you've always seen things. Some people's views on sahm are positively depressing and hard to grasp when you had your children at a time when most mums stayed at home for a few years.

OP, in all honesty you're coming across to me as one of life's flitters. Flitting from one idea to the next in pursuit of a career that they think they'll love, but not thinking about the practicalities of whether what they will earn from it will e enough to pay the real-life stuff like mortgage and bills.

First you decide that the healthcare stuff you were doing doesn't work for you anymore. Next you try the holistic therapies but don't appear to be attempting to make it a viable business seeing as you state you're just doing it on friends. Now you say you want to get a creative writing MA, despite never having had anything published. AND rather than save up for it yourself from your holistic therapy stuff you expect HIM to pay for it for you. And then having a moan at him, who is very reasonably wanting to put most of the household income into paying off the mortgage off. (In this economic climate, a most sensible move.)

If this was a man who was writing this thread, i can just imagine the responses. "Stop faffing around with career choices that don't seem to be going anywhere, grow up and help relieve the pressure on your DW to keep the family income going."

I know you are making light of it, jokingly saying that you'll decide what you want to do when you grow up but joking aside, at your age I would be trying to think a bit harder about getting something in place for earning enough to help your children to get through university and saving enough for your own retirement. Faffing around with massage oil and writing short stories for your own pleasure isn't going to do that.

I can understand you wanting to achieve stuff but don't see why you can't help yourself out to do it - I can't understand why you can't do more of the holistic therapy stuff to pay for the MA instead of just seemingly doing it for friends.

All the people trying make some feminist point here about both parties having a joint right to the household income are totally barking up the wrong tree. What's needed here is for the OP to take some responsibility for herself without relying on her husband.

What CurlyHaired said.

Curly - she said that she earned about £3.5k last year so technically she could pay for the masters out of "her" earnings even before she starts stepping up her work once her kids start nursery.

I agree that she is one of life's "flitters". But I'm not sure that that is a bad thing. I am one of life's "forward march, straight line, eyes front"ers.
It's great in many ways - I have an interesting, well paid job that I enjoy. But I have no real flexibility. If I was made redundant (and my company has restructures every sodding year) then the only way I could get another job in my (very specialised) industry is by moving cities. Which would have a huge impact on my husband's (also highly specialised) career and my dd's school life. And I can't really do anything else.

I could say something trite here about life being a journey and if you are too fixed on your destination then you won't enjoy the trip but then we'd both have to leave the debate to go and vomit.