to feel screwed over by our society, can't afford a home, can't afford children, can't afford car

[Lauranda]

I'm in my early 30s, had a great up bringing, do a job I like and got married last year. I do feel very lucky.

However where we live in the south east, all we can afford to rent is a badly converted 1 bed flat with a damp problem. Can't really save much and are very economical with our money so can't see ever affording anything bigger and could never bring up a child here.

My parents managed to get a large 4 bed Edwardian house on one sallery when I was growing up and dads job level was about the same as dh. No way could with double sallarys afford anything near that lifestyle.

Parents keep saying my time will come, but looking at the statistics that seams very wishful thinking. Parents have kindly offered 15k to help get a house but to be any use would need much more than that and to pray interest rates never rose much.

Am I alone in just being unable to afford children even though we both work full time?

I guess we could go without everything unless absolutely essential and save up 15k in 3 years to go with the other 15k (however thats tied and I don't like handouts). Then we could afford a two up two down within an hour of dh and mine work. But then we would have expensive commuting costs and be tied into a 30 year debt that is only barely affordable if interest rates stay their historic low. That just seams too risky.

Think I might as well just have a child now, its not like we will ever go hungry. Wouldn't be able to save anything though and just keep fingers crossed the house price correction comes by the time we are thinking about schools.

Windy claims to be an ex city trader?

Lol doesn't surprise me, they seam to know very little about basic economics and do their best to screw everyone else as long as they are doing ok.

Well Interest rates wont stay the same, that's for sure, but you would be wise to get a sensible fixed term rate. But you're sounding more realistic now. A two up two down is fine, specially as a first home. As for the commute- well, again, it's doable. Although I would still consider the option of buying elsewhere as it all sounds a bit too much like strings attached with this 15k 'gift'

Do you have large debts op?

. I hardly think this is the place for a discussion about LIBOR and basis points. If you want to make points about comparative rates of inflation then post the comparators rather than generalist information.

What's riskier? The 30 year debt with the risks of interest rate or renting with the risk of needing to move out with two month notice? Bearing in mind that you could go for more security with fixed rate deals (we have just signed a 5 year deal and we will probably re mortgage after the 5 years).

Magpie but interest rates could be double in 5 years, and if lenders ristrict a bit more with the LTV rate then you can't switch lenders and are just stuck on the normal rate

I think renting is the less risky option by far, although I thought I could be kicked out with a months notice

Is it not all about risk? Those of us who risk a lot and stump up lal the stamp duty and commute etc sometimes (not always) buy something that rises in value. Those who will not take a risk of negative equity and the 21% interest rates I have historically paid don't make the gains.
30 years ago we could not afford to live near work in London and I commuted for an hour each day each way whilst having children too. It was very very hard and even in outer London where we bought the property prices were ridiculous but we stuck it out, made the sacrifices, had all those train journeys often standing all the way(and in he very early days there were even smoking compartments on the tube you sometimes ended up in - not fun) and 30 years on it paid off.

So my advice to those of my children who have graduated is buy as soon as you can whatever the sacrifice and however hard life is for a few years and even if you have to tolerate a disgusting commute from an awful area.

We started out somewhere like this - they cost about £275,000 today - 3 bed terraced house, outer London zone 5.www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-42354784.html

30 years ago only people like us could buy around here - young professionals, not those on the average salary. I suspect it is similar today except interest rates are very very very low so it in that sense easier now. Both my 20 something daughters (in similar professional careers - not minimum wage earners) have bought in London in the last 2 years. It's very hard but it's worth it in my view.

High risk = high return
Low risk = low return

You will generally only make a significant financial gain by taking on a certain amount of risk. It's nothing new.

So my advice to those of my children who have graduated is buy as soon as you can whatever the sacrifice and however hard life is for a few years and even if you have to tolerate a disgusting commute from an awful area.

I think that is very risky advice. I do understand it thought, you have seen money for nothing in buying your house 30 years ago. However now people could be stuck in these awful areas for decades, with double mortgage costs

And also Jessica it was only good for you 30 years ago as wages kept up with inflation. This is not happening anymore.

It sounds suspiciously like you don't really know what you mean there, Windy.... And there are a fair few posters on MN who would be very happy to have a discussion about LIBOR. However, I see JessicaMary/MariaJenny has popped up on this thread too, presumably to tell us how we should move to Luton / her professional daughters bought with no problems so housing is all ticketyboo and not the least expensive, so I'm off, as I can't be bothered rebutting the same points over and over again....

My advice to you is to stop worrying about buying a place. You are right that now is a terrible time to be a first time buyer. House prices are in a ridiculous bubble, which will invariably burst leaving many people stuck in negative equity.

You can afford to wait to buy, but to you can less afford to wait to ttc. In your early 30's you are still young, but you don't know how fertile you are. It's a great age to have a baby. Most children sleep with their parents for the first few years, so assuming you fall pg quickly, you will be looking at 3 years down the line before it will become important for your child to have their own space. So that's 3 years of saving time.

If and when you do buy, think carefully about what you are getting. Particularly if the bubble has not yet burst. Don't extend yourself on a 1 bedroom flat. Buy a place which has at least 2 bedrooms or don't buy at all. Because there is a chance that you will be stuck there in negative equity, so it may as well be somewhere you will be satisfied to be stuck in. Yes, you can be asked to leave a rented flat, but you can also elect to leave with little notice, which is more than can be said for home owners.

And renting makes it much easier to move into catchment areas for preferred schools.

Good post Raz.

My dm constantly argues that mortgages were just as hard to come by in the 60's and 70's.

Dh and I work ft with a good income and could not even consider buying in London well we could have pushed for Thamesmead/Woolwich/Erith. We decided against it and moved to Kent.

My aunts had four/five children each and their dhs had ordinary jobs. They had mortgages on three/four bedroom properties in London and my aunts were sahms. They did not go on holidays, buy lots of clothes, eat take aways etc. Their homes are now worth over £700k.

Dh and I do not go on holidays, buy lots of clothes, eat take outs and we BOTH work! Oh and we cannot live in London.

(21% of course was 12% above - just my typo)
I never said my daughters found it easy to buy. I also have said it depends on your salary if you can. When we bought only young professionals like us could afford to buy where we did and it is the same today. Most people on average pay certainly in London have always found it impossible to buy which is why we try to ensure our children pick the better paid careers etc or move out of London surely?

I just don't think the game has changed so very much from then to now that it is a silly decision to buy now if you can. I think it remains a wise decision and I encourage all the children to do so.

We bought in zone 5 and I am in zone 5 now. I don't regard it as being stuck in an awful area. I regard it as the commute to work people have to do even on my salary level and always have.

If you wait and put off buying very late life ends up being a lot harder.

Jeez jessicamary don't you ever give up.

On my thread you peddled all this clap trap.

Your daughter is in a profession where she can earn £1m+. On what planet does that make her job just a 'better paid career'?

If she hasn't found it easy to buy, how much hope is there for the very vast majority of people?

Hang on, this is a thread about a topic I am interested in so I don't see why it's surprising I might post on it and secondly others on the thread above have been saying yes you can buy today (not easy but you can). That's all I'm saying. Feel free to ignore me.

I'm not surprised you posted on this thread but I am surprised that, after posting numerous recent newspaper articles on the other thread about how difficult it is to buy now, you still find it appropriate to harp on about how, if you and your daughters have managed it, so can everyone else if they try.

We live in the North West, we are both unemployed at the moment and have a 2 bedroom house with a lovely back garden. All the rent is paid for us, life is pretty good and even when only one of us was working it was still very affordable with money for extras etc. We are both retraining at the moment and DP is looking for work which is why we are on benefits. The rent for the house is £85 a week all paid by housing benefit (I am not happy being on benefits and cannot wait to return to work)

I would not be able to afford to live in the South East, however and wouldn't have whilst working either without seriously compromising standard of living. I'm just lucky both our families are from here and it is our home, the only problem is lack of employment which is bad up here.

We can't afford to live in the South East.

We are both Londoners. I want to live in London because that is where my family is, that is where I grew up. I actually get on with my parents and do not want to live 200+ miles away, especially as they are getting older.

But our main income is a civil service one, and we just could not afford the South East. And we wanted kids.

TBH, yes, I am pissed off that I cannot afford to live in the city I grew up, in the city my family lives in. I don't want to live in London to use the admittedly good facilities. I want to live in the city I grew up in, near my extended family, where house prices have skyrocketed in my lifetime. My family has lived in London since time immemorial and I'd really like to be able to live there.

In practical terms, we've certainly taken more out of the public purse as a result simply because our parents have been unable to help much with childcare and now, as they get older, we can't really help our parents with day to day care as we are too far away.

You have to make these choices, sadly. And I don't think there is an easy solution. But its difficult.

'I suppose complaining about the loss of these simple life-enhancing things is a symptom of my sense of entitlement in the age of austerity. But it is very sad that normal people are made to feel guilty for the
simple desire to raise their children near their grandparents.'

I have to agree, I feel extremely lucky me and DP's parents are all very close (within 20 minutes drive of us), I would be very, very upset to have to move to a different part of the country to my mother with my DCs. To many people it is very important their children have a good strong relationship with their parents/siblings.

I often have thought I'm unlucky to live/be from in the North West due to the lack of work, crapper weather lol etc but tbh reading these threads of people working god knows how many hours in well paying good jobs and still only being able to afford dingy flats makes me shudder, how utterly awful for them and such people must honestly feel like a slave, working for nothing. As said I feel incredibly lucky as we have a long term tenancy on a lovely 2 bed house with a garden close to all family and it is all paid for by the DWP. I believe this is due to the area I am living in, but again its blackened by the lack of work up here.

The house I am living in costs around £50-£60k to buy, is £385 a month to rent (a person/couple with one child is entitled to £425 a month in benefits here if you dont work!), in the South East a similar property would cost loads more.

Um.

I bought my 2 bed flat on a single salary, less than £30k pa, I saved a £30k deposit first and had no help, I run a car too... I think it can be done, but it is a lot to do with priorities. I budget a lot.