about 'umarried' mothers?

[Thurlow]

I probably am being. I just want a rant. I have seen so many comments on MN over the past few months about unmarried mothers where the assumption is that you are only unmarried because one of you, usually the man, is a non-committal waste of space, and that he has no right to share a name with any DC because he hasn't bothered to put a ring on it.

Yes, it's only words on screen, but I'm starting to feel an overwhelming belief out there that unmarried couples are less committed than married couples. As someone in a very long-term relationship who made the joint decision not to marry as it wasn't for us, and who - sin of sins - gave their DC their father's surname, it just leaves me with the impression that I am being judged by most people as less committed. It's not a cheerful impression to have.

This isn't a rant against marriage - it just wasn't for us as a couple. And it's not a debate about marriage because I know that legally it brings so much protection, which is not relevant to our current situation.

I'm just getting royally narked with all the 'if you like it you should have put a ring on it' comments I've seen lately.

And breathe...

'If you wait' comments describe my friends who were snidey by the way. Sorry, poorly explained.

Yanbu.

Ages ago I started a thread about whether to give mine and DP's baby his surname or mine.

It turned into a debate about why we weren't married and we should be and if he won't marry me (because it's all his choice ) then he has no right to give our child his name and he obviously isn't committed etc etc, which totally wasn't what I was asking!

I've come across it in real life a bit too, but not to the extent as on here.

I have a thread going at the moment actually where I must have stated DP a good few times in the op and subsequently, but a lot of the replies (maybe half) have had "your DH" or "your husband", probably not out of any agenda, but because the posts make reference to me being pregnant so people make the assumption.

We have been together 10 years, own a house together and are expecting a baby together. I can see us getting married in the future maybe, but I can't see how it would make any difference to our quite lovely relationship.

perhaps its expectations. my ds and db are also married with dc. I wouldn't want to have dc unless I was married and tbh I don't think my dds will either.

I'm in my 40s so things have changed.

Changed how? I'm 50.

Interesting pomme, I wonder how people did it years ago when they got married first then had their kids? !!

Being married isnt relevant to my situation either OP, I'd be no better or worse off if DP was to sod off somewhere. Ignore them, they are usually just snotty people who want to feel their relationship is more committed and superior, often purely to justify the large expense of most weddings.

Loads of people dont get married and their relationships last longer than for those married. Doesn't mean they arn't committed, in some communities getting married is just not really a done thing or/and is uncommon.

Never known giving your child their fathers surname if not being married is something to worry about/avoid, it doesnt mean the father now has more rights than the mother. Its normal for a child to take their fathers name so why would you have your child any different if you are in a LTR? You'd think that being unmarried someone might aswell not even be in a relationship at all.

Loads of married people cheat, leave and all the rest. I would like to get married to my DP one day purely for the dress and day (probably a reason why I shouldnt!) other than that I cannot see why it matters at all. DP doesnt have his mothers second name, his dad and her were not married and fgs it hasnt affected their relationship or anything of the sort! How the hell is it 'unwise' fgs?!

I think it's more acceptable to be unmarried now with dc and possibly the norm than in the 80s when I was growing up.

I dont have the same surname as my mother either as she remarried after she split with my dad, why the hell it would ever matter is beyond me!???

Plenty of people weren't married in the 1980s.

I think it is different. My mother married in an empire line dress and my grandmother never got over the shame. By the time I was 12/13 I was the only girl in my class with divorced parents and it used to make me cringe that letters to my mother didn't have the same name as mine on them.

I think you have to have experienced that to know how awful it was. I am glad thing have changed but I think having gone through it has made me far more traditional than I might otherwise have been. I was never going to give another teacher or doctor or nurse the opportunity to make a snide comment - ever. And snide comments were made in the 60's and 70's and they hurt.

in my experience most of my df were married or wanted to be. it was an aspiration.

I take your point. I suppose I'm one of those 1980s feminists who finds marriage a bit scandalous, really.

horsemad - people married and had kids a lot younger back in the day!

19 years together 4 kids from 3.5 to 18 yet still not married.

DD1 was a very quick baby, born on our 1 year anniversary and we I thought we would get married so I gave her dp's name, so all the rest have his name.

We would get married if we could afford a cheap ceremony but our local registry office has gone upmarket and it doesn't seem to offer just marriages, only packages which start at several hundred. That said if we never get married I don't mind. What irks me is even though we have been together 19 years people don't congratulate us on the relationship. It is like they will only celebrate or acknowledge a wedding anniversary

But pomme, by having DC with someone you are committing, so why not just get married without the preamble and crack on with the procreating?

Well, we did get married but having dd1 first for me was a no brainer. I got broody, I came off pill, I got pregnant. I can't imagine waiting to get married to indulge the broodiness!

As I said though, not religious at all and a history of not doing the 'right' thing all my friends were doing!

'Not doing the right thing' - YY. I've had one or two comments over the years like that, actually. Most notable a close friend's husband who was severely fucked off when I got pg as DP and I were neither married nor owned a house, and he clearly said "it's not fair, they've not done it right and we have"

I do get that for most people it is an aspiration, either the wedding or the desire to be a wife/husband. But is that really a reason to do it?

Good to hear other similar experiences as, like I said, I'm the only conscientious objector that I know in RL.

I am still waiting though, after three years on MN, for someone to explain why it is actually "unwise" to have a different surname from DC other than the travelling abroad issue, which is solvable by having a copy of the birth certificate with you.

I couldn't give two hoots about anyone else's choices to marry or not. I got married because I want the easy legal security of a bit of paper linking me to the man I loved (he was a willing participant!), a big white frock and a party with all my friends.

Oh I don't care whether people get married or not, if they choose to ignore the legal rights provided by narriage then that's their lookout: I do think it's faintly ridiculous to be together X amount of years, have the home & kids & then have the big white wedding!

I understand that must have been upsetting for you as a child NearTheWindymill, I too am glad there isnt the stigma there is today, and that it wont be unusual for children to have different names to their mothers.

horsemad some people like the idea of having their little DC's at their wedding, I know that is the case with me.

Why ridiculous horsemad?