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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

about 'umarried' mothers?

290 replies

Thurlow · 03/05/2014 11:55

I probably am being. I just want a rant. I have seen so many comments on MN over the past few months about unmarried mothers where the assumption is that you are only unmarried because one of you, usually the man, is a non-committal waste of space, and that he has no right to share a name with any DC because he hasn't bothered to put a ring on it.

Yes, it's only words on screen, but I'm starting to feel an overwhelming belief out there that unmarried couples are less committed than married couples. As someone in a very long-term relationship who made the joint decision not to marry as it wasn't for us, and who - sin of sins - gave their DC their father's surname, it just leaves me with the impression that I am being judged by most people as less committed. It's not a cheerful impression to have.

This isn't a rant against marriage - it just wasn't for us as a couple. And it's not a debate about marriage because I know that legally it brings so much protection, which is not relevant to our current situation.

I'm just getting royally narked with all the 'if you like it you should have put a ring on it' comments I've seen lately.

And breathe...

OP posts:

technosausage · 03/05/2014 12:36

I would say having children together is more of a commitment than getting married.
Me and my dp have been together over 10 years and have two children. We are getting married next year but to be honest were doing it so we all have the same name and the pay out on his life insurance will be more :)

WorraLiberty · 03/05/2014 12:36

What confuses me is people who have kids with someone but then say they weren't sure if they were 'ready for marriage' - surely having kids is a lifetime link to their dad, if you weren't sure he was marriage material why did you think he was father material?

That's a very good point actually.

It's like they're willing for their child to have a link to him forever, but not willing to link themselves forever to him.

NearTheWindymill · 03/05/2014 12:37

Indeed Worra. Or take a chance that he says no and find out where they stand so become free for someone who wants the same as them.

turgiday · 03/05/2014 12:37

That link on the MN site isn't relevant for Scotland though. I thought things were different there?

Original poster

Thurlow · 03/05/2014 12:39

See, there are actually a few comments on this thread which are the kind of comments I was talking about!

For us it is not about the cost of a wedding (agree with Kundry about people who use that as an explanation). We have spent more money on getting other things legally sorted than we would have done on a quick ceremony - wills, pensions, life insurance, powers of attorney.

Further legal protection would only come into the equation for us if one of us was financially reliant on the other, which is currently not the case. I'm old enough and ugly enough to reconsider this should the situation change.

As for unmarried couples with DC splitting up more than married couples, I do think this statistic is skewed, for lack of a better word, because it will include couples who have only been together a year or so as well as couples who have been together 10+ years before having DC. It would be very interesting to see the statistics broken down further, if that was possible.

As for DC having their fathers name, that makes the assumption that a woman change her name on marriage. It's not "unwise". It's just a choice.

OP posts:

Sidge · 03/05/2014 12:39

I don't care whether parents are married or not. It makes little difference to parenting capacity.

But people who think a long term relationship with children together is "equal" to being married in legal and financial terms are naive.

A wedding does not equal a marriage so no need for it to be a big fancy shebang costing a fortune.

HPparent · 03/05/2014 12:39

Really surprised by this thread. It makes no difference to me or I think the majority whether people are married or not. Tbh I while I know that colleagues etc have partners or spouses I don't know if they have been through a marriage as such. Not everyone who is married wears a ring or refers to partner as husband/wife and people who are not married might do so.

Personally I got married cheaply and it was for legal reasons after dd1 was born - DH was due to inherit quite a bit of property - not any more though because PIL have spent everything

tabulahrasa · 03/05/2014 12:40

In what way is it unwise to give a child its father's surname if you're unmarried?

EBearhug · 03/05/2014 12:40

I don't care whether people are married or not, but I think there is quite a bit of ignorance around the different levels of legal protection, and not everyone makes an informed decision or gets the legal stuff done separately.

I have a friend who some years ago was considering splitting up from his not-wife, and assumed it would be the same as divorce, when it comes to next of kin and so on. (A decade on, they're still together, still not married, but a lot happier.)

Ploppy16 · 03/05/2014 12:43

When DS was born we weren't married, had been together for 3 years and we gave him DH's (then DP) surname. Unwise to some maybe but he does at least have the same surname as his 2 younger sisters!
We did get a lot of silly comments about when we would get married and some older people made comments that were frankly offensive but did it in our own time. Eventually.

scarletforya · 03/05/2014 12:45

But even if it is cheap I still don't want to. Why not just be in a relationship when you're happy and then walk away when it's not.

To me marriage/divorce is just extra unnecessary work and expense.

I saw my mother trapped in an unhappy marriage when I was a child and I have a fear of it.

turgiday · 03/05/2014 12:53

scarelet - People can do what they want with marriage, I really don't care. But make sure you are financially protected. Lots of unmarried woman have been shocked to find out either when a relationship breaks down, or their partner dies, that they fare worse financially than they would have if they were married. Pensions especially is an area unmarried woman often lose out on.

scarletforya · 03/05/2014 12:57

Ah DP doesn't have a pension, but I do! I have a small property which is rented out and we rent so I think I'm ok!

kungfupannda · 03/05/2014 13:03

I'm an "unmarried mother"

I've had a couple of head-tilty comments over the years (one was before we even had children) but I tend to do this face and they seem to find something else they need to be pretty quickly.

I've found that judgy people don't like it when you beam at them as though they're the funniest/quaintest/most deluded thing you've ever encountered.

kungfupannda · 03/05/2014 13:04

somewhere else they need to be. Not something. No-one has ever performed an act of transfiguration in front of me as far as I can remember....

Original poster

Thurlow · 03/05/2014 13:04

One comment I do actually get in RL is, if asked why we're not married, I say because it isn't for us, I get a sympathetic look and someone says "Ah, yes, I thought that - until I met my DH".

Thanks.

(Have moved job recently which seems to have prompted these conversations again)

OP posts:

DrankSangriaInThePark · 03/05/2014 13:07

I am an unmarried mother.

And in deepest darkest Italy no less.

Nobody gives a toss.

MN isn't ^real, you know.

Lanabelle · 03/05/2014 13:07

Marriage isn't what it used to be. With divorce as easy to come by and widely accepted now its not the sign of 'commitment' it used to be, you want commitment? get a mortgage - theres 25 years of financial commitment right there. takes ages to prepare for (saving the deposit) and is a damnsight harder to get out of than a marriage. My parents were married and they were awful parents and partners. They had a bit of paper stating they were committed but it wasn't a reflection on how they lived. The only reason we got married (2 months before I gave birth) was so the nasty cow that gave birth to me couldn't get her hands on my child if anything happened to me before I had a chance to register DH on the birth certificate. If it wasn't for the stupid illegitimacy law I wouldn't have bothered, I was and still am completely secure in my relationship and committed to the father of my child with or without a bit of paper (which incidentally I have no idea which box I packed it in when we moved)

PrincessBabyCat · 03/05/2014 13:12

We mostly got married for the tax breaks.

My great aunt and uncle never officially married and they were loyal to each other right up until the very end. My uncle spent every day taking care of his wife with alzhiemers and when she was bed ridden he had a hospital bed in his home and took care of her there. Then when she died, he died shortly after.

soverylucky · 03/05/2014 13:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HappyMummyOfOne · 03/05/2014 13:14

Upto you. Personally for me, marriage shows long term commitment. We took our vows and cannot simply walk away. Couples that are not married have a much quicker and easier get out clause and many use it. I think married couples try harder if they hit problems.

Children are a huge commitment too for many, others not so. The amount of children born from one night stands, boyfriends of just a few weeks etc is staggering so to many they arent a commitment in the slightest and certainly not more so than marriage.

All depends on your viewpoint. If you are happy, then why care what anybody else does or thinks?

Spispens · 03/05/2014 13:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wolfofwestfieled · 03/05/2014 13:18

I see being married and living together long term as equally valid relationship statuses.

What I find strange are people who get 'engaged' but don't plan a wedding, and just live together engaged for years and years with no intention of getting married. But see their 'engaged' status as somehow better or more committed than 'just' living together.

Iamnotachewtoy · 03/05/2014 13:23

I posted recently on a thread on dadsnet about this recently which is probably similar to those you're referring to in your Op.

If I wasn't married, my DC would have my name. That isn't intended to cast aspersions on the unmarried state, it's just what I would do and what would feel right to me.

I can see how all the comments would get annoying, that's horrifically rude of your coworkers to ask in the first place and then say things like that.

Isn't of saying marriage isn't for you, could you say instead you're happily committed and don't need to get married? Then you're replying with a positive instead of a negative which would make it harder for annoying people to think of a come back if that makes sense?

Iamnotachewtoy · 03/05/2014 13:26

Sorry that should read "instead of saying" not isn't of saying...

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